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You stated, plain as day: > killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any

You stated, plain as day: > killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any other reason). Any other questions? Humans are non-endangered animals, are they not? Therefore you are _literally_ saying killing humans for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
Listen. You're right. There, I gave you validation. But you're not going to change anyone's mind. So what's the point? Remember, the primary purpose of HN is entertainment (intellectual gratification). Internalizing this helped me break the habit of making such arguments "just to be right." I'll throw it back at you: Yes, I just ate two pork steaks. I have two more in the fridge. In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. It is literally fine to use humans for sustenance if everyone collectively agrees it's fine, by the way. People have done it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 You could argue "Well, that was survival. Besides, those people were already dead." Literally every animal born into factory farming is already dead. They just don't realize it yet. I think linking to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzgesagt%E2%80%93InaNutshell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzg... is probably your best bet at even getting people to stop and think about the question at all. Yet if even Kurzgesagt's eloquence doesn't make a dent (I still scarf down pork steaks on a regular basis), what hope do you have here? Once you internalize all of this, perhaps you'll be in a frame of mind to realize that it was off-topic to bring up factory farming in a thread about ivory poaching. I get where you're coming from, and I agree that it seems closely related. But things like this just aren't worth litigating; broadcasting your own morals to a wide audience is rarely a good idea.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. > Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. Then I assume you similarly have no issue with poaching, for all the same reasons?
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    The point is, it's irrelevant whether I personally have an issue with poaching or not. What if I sit here and say "Not only do I not have an issue with poaching, but I personally went on a rhino hunt last year and scored myself two kills"? Your conversation is having effects on the site, and it's important to think about those effects. You probably feel the effects are positive. But angering all the meat eaters (which are numerous) changes nothing. The outcome before and after your thread is the same, except now a lot of people are unhappy. If you're not careful, your devil's advocate streak will come to an end, because (much to my dismay) unhappy people will email complaints about you to the people who run the site, and they'll go "Oh, yes, this is off-topic; in fact, they've been posting quite a lot of off-topic things." Then they'll press a button which either sinks your comments to the bottom, limits you from posting more than 5 comments every 3 hours, and other various unpleasant behavior modification techniques. I've experienced them all. If you want to experience them, then off-topic subthreads that make a lot of people unhappy is an excellent way. I'll leave you to it. Perhaps you'll get lucky and fly under the radar now that HN is another order of magnitude larger. But your lucky streak won't last forever; sooner or later, if you keep calling people insufferable douchebags (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28984926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28984926) or leaving generic political comments about America (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28982669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28982669) or bringing up tangents about race (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979634) or trying to imply that everyone who has a problem with poaching should also stop eating meat, well... You clearly have a lot to offer conversations. For me, it helped to channel my intellectual curiosity side, rather than my "pointing out how terrible society is" side. It made me happier in the long run, too. Hopefully you'll have a long run.
seattle_spring 5y ago
Way to setup a [textbook] strawman argument so you could feel like you came out on top. I'm on my way to Butcher's Table in Seattle btw, really looking forward to it! Thank you for encouraging me to indulge in excess tonight.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  What strawman? If anything, I am using reductio ad absurdum to show how your argument is asinine. You have yet to answer the question of why you think killing people is more acceptable than killing elephants. Or you could, you know, admit your statement is nonsense.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

Listen. You're right. There, I gave you validation. But you're not going to change anyone's mind. So what's the point? Remember, the primary purpose of HN is entertainment (intellectual gratification). Internalizing this helped me break the habit of making such arguments "just to be right." I'll throw it back at you: Yes, I just ate two pork steaks. I have two more in the fridge. In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. It is literally fine to use humans for sustenance if everyone collectively agrees it's fine, by the way. People have done it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 You could argue "Well, that was survival. Besides, those people were already dead." Literally every animal born into factory farming is already dead. They just don't realize it yet. I think linking to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzgesagt%E2%80%93InaNutshell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzg... is probably your best bet at even getting people to stop and think about the question at all. Yet if even Kurzgesagt's eloquence doesn't make a dent (I still scarf down pork steaks on a regular basis), what hope do you have here? Once you internalize all of this, perhaps you'll be in a frame of mind to realize that it was off-topic to bring up factory farming in a thread about ivory poaching. I get where you're coming from, and I agree that it seems closely related. But things like this just aren't worth litigating; broadcasting your own morals to a wide audience is rarely a good idea.

Ansil849 5y ago
> In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. > Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. Then I assume you similarly have no issue with poaching, for all the same reasons?
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  The point is, it's irrelevant whether I personally have an issue with poaching or not. What if I sit here and say "Not only do I not have an issue with poaching, but I personally went on a rhino hunt last year and scored myself two kills"? Your conversation is having effects on the site, and it's important to think about those effects. You probably feel the effects are positive. But angering all the meat eaters (which are numerous) changes nothing. The outcome before and after your thread is the same, except now a lot of people are unhappy. If you're not careful, your devil's advocate streak will come to an end, because (much to my dismay) unhappy people will email complaints about you to the people who run the site, and they'll go "Oh, yes, this is off-topic; in fact, they've been posting quite a lot of off-topic things." Then they'll press a button which either sinks your comments to the bottom, limits you from posting more than 5 comments every 3 hours, and other various unpleasant behavior modification techniques. I've experienced them all. If you want to experience them, then off-topic subthreads that make a lot of people unhappy is an excellent way. I'll leave you to it. Perhaps you'll get lucky and fly under the radar now that HN is another order of magnitude larger. But your lucky streak won't last forever; sooner or later, if you keep calling people insufferable douchebags (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28984926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28984926) or leaving generic political comments about America (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28982669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28982669) or bringing up tangents about race (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979634) or trying to imply that everyone who has a problem with poaching should also stop eating meat, well... You clearly have a lot to offer conversations. For me, it helped to channel my intellectual curiosity side, rather than my "pointing out how terrible society is" side. It made me happier in the long run, too. Hopefully you'll have a long run.

seattle_spring 5y ago

Way to setup a [textbook] strawman argument so you could feel like you came out on top. I'm on my way to Butcher's Table in Seattle btw, really looking forward to it! Thank you for encouraging me to indulge in excess tonight.

Ansil849 5y ago
What strawman? If anything, I am using reductio ad absurdum to show how your argument is asinine. You have yet to answer the question of why you think killing people is more acceptable than killing elephants. Or you could, you know, admit your statement is nonsense.