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At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, is there such thing as ethicially sourced ivory? If not, I imagine the only reasonable thing to do would be to educ

At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, is there such thing as ethicially sourced ivory? If not, I imagine the only reasonable thing to do would be to educate and raise awareness on the catastrophic impact poaching has on the elephant species as a whole.

sva_ 5y ago
Great plan, but I'm pretty sure that people who buy ivory don't give a damn about elephants.
notriddle 5y ago
Injection-molded plastic? I kid. I kid. Obviously, injection-molded plastic is bad for the environment, regardless of its history as an "ethical source of ivory."
rich_sasha 5y ago
I remember reading about the very thing, sold by one of the wildlife reserves, coming only from naturally deceased animals. There's also other species that have comparable bones. Supposedly, the melting permafrost is drowning the ivory market with mammoth ivory (which somehow is a cheap counterfeit, not an awesome curiosity): https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mammoth-tusk-hunters-russia-china https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mammoth-tusk-hunters-russia-...
aziaziazi 5y ago
It depends on your owns consideration of what is ethic : some animist may not consider ethic to take part off a dead corpse. Others may draw the line between wild and bred animals. You may also consider that it is ethic to kill a living being if you do it in an « honorable » way (use your own definition of honorable) , as in coridas or hunting.
q1w2 5y ago
This is a fantastic question - as this is indeed done for other African animals, like crocodiles. The biggest issue is that elephants cannot be profitably raised in captivity - they require too much food, too much space, and take too long to produce tusks. ...and if you allow them to roam in reserves, then poachers shoot them. I do wonder if it might work in another part of the world that could offer better security for large elephant reserves, without them impacting the native habitat. It has also been tried with tusks obtained by elephants that naturally died, and that program failed due to smugglers bribing officials to insert poached ivory into the auctions [0]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/13/these-african-nations-want-to-sell-a-fortune-of-legal-ivory-bad-idea-scientists-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... I think the underlying issue is that demand is so high that there wouldn't be anywhere on Earth that could produce enough to stop cheap poaching in Africa, so it's easier to simply ban the trade entirely. Maybe there's an opportunity for lab-grown ivory? [1] [1] https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i4/synthetic-horns-tusks-offer-hope.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i4/synthetic-horns-tusks-off...
- manquer 5y ago
  You cannot grow them as a business model, however if you already have a preserve and elephants on them wouldn't a) be safer to remove the tusks from the elephants to make them less of a target and b) sell the removed tusks to fund your preserve ?
  - q1w2 5y ago
    The moment anyone in the world starts selling tusks, poachers start shooting elephants and smuggling the tusks into these "legal" markets/auctions.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      Fun Fact: Violin bows also contain ivory in the tip. https://www.benningviolins.com/ivory-violins-and-violin-bows.html https://www.benningviolins.com/ivory-violins-and-violin-bows... I had a friend who was a luthier, and in this tradition the father hands over the materials to the son, so that you may have wood that's been aging for 40 years, and a stockpile of ivory to use in the bows.

sva_ 5y ago

Great plan, but I'm pretty sure that people who buy ivory don't give a damn about elephants.

notriddle 5y ago

Injection-molded plastic? I kid. I kid. Obviously, injection-molded plastic is bad for the environment, regardless of its history as an "ethical source of ivory."

rich_sasha 5y ago

I remember reading about the very thing, sold by one of the wildlife reserves, coming only from naturally deceased animals. There's also other species that have comparable bones. Supposedly, the melting permafrost is drowning the ivory market with mammoth ivory (which somehow is a cheap counterfeit, not an awesome curiosity): https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mammoth-tusk-hunters-russia-china https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mammoth-tusk-hunters-russia-...

aziaziazi 5y ago

It depends on your owns consideration of what is ethic : some animist may not consider ethic to take part off a dead corpse. Others may draw the line between wild and bred animals. You may also consider that it is ethic to kill a living being if you do it in an « honorable » way (use your own definition of honorable) , as in coridas or hunting.

q1w2 5y ago

This is a fantastic question - as this is indeed done for other African animals, like crocodiles. The biggest issue is that elephants cannot be profitably raised in captivity - they require too much food, too much space, and take too long to produce tusks. ...and if you allow them to roam in reserves, then poachers shoot them. I do wonder if it might work in another part of the world that could offer better security for large elephant reserves, without them impacting the native habitat. It has also been tried with tusks obtained by elephants that naturally died, and that program failed due to smugglers bribing officials to insert poached ivory into the auctions [0]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/13/these-african-nations-want-to-sell-a-fortune-of-legal-ivory-bad-idea-scientists-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... I think the underlying issue is that demand is so high that there wouldn't be anywhere on Earth that could produce enough to stop cheap poaching in Africa, so it's easier to simply ban the trade entirely. Maybe there's an opportunity for lab-grown ivory? [1] [1] https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i4/synthetic-horns-tusks-offer-hope.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i4/synthetic-horns-tusks-off...

manquer 5y ago
You cannot grow them as a business model, however if you already have a preserve and elephants on them wouldn't a) be safer to remove the tusks from the elephants to make them less of a target and b) sell the removed tusks to fund your preserve ?
- q1w2 5y ago
  The moment anyone in the world starts selling tusks, poachers start shooting elephants and smuggling the tusks into these "legal" markets/auctions.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Fun Fact: Violin bows also contain ivory in the tip. https://www.benningviolins.com/ivory-violins-and-violin-bows.html https://www.benningviolins.com/ivory-violins-and-violin-bows... I had a friend who was a luthier, and in this tradition the father hands over the materials to the son, so that you may have wood that's been aging for 40 years, and a stockpile of ivory to use in the bows.