4 ms·

> People like these would be held accountable for their in bad faith actions. They damaged all the world just for profit, thieves in the streets get ready more

> People like these would be held accountable for their in bad faith actions. They damaged all the world just for profit, thieves in the streets get ready more for much much less. What about holding the people who actually buy the products accountable? The Koch fortune originates from gasoline. That fortune would not be able to be amassed, and their influence would not have spread, if it were not for people driving. If you drive around, you are complicit.

rektide 5y ago
The whole damned point is that consumers were being actively disinformed about their decisions. Turning around & asking, why weren't we holding consumers accountable for their purchases, when they are being actively manipulated & lied to, is not particularly high in my rank of questions to drill into & explore.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  All consumers are being lied to and manipulated, that is the entire purpose of marketing. At some point, individual accountability has to be taken into consideration. You can't get by in life by just claiming to have been suckered every time.
  - rektide 5y ago
    big big line between manipulated & being lied too, to me. i hope most marketters would not have so cavalierly group these in the same bucket, especially when the the lie is an existential threat to all known life. but i hope just lying alone is a fairly big no no for most marketters; i for one believe in a society with ethics. there's probably some laws regulating consumer disinformation too, icd wager; certainly i'd expect it to open up the liar to liability lawsuits. and it's not just consumers, everyone was bilked by these lying disinformationing Captain Planet grade villians. government policies were influenced & made based off research these folks paid to shape. the media told different stories. ultimately i actually agree: we all are accountable. one of those responsibilities is identifying the lying liars trying to set the world's pants afire. and stopping them from hurting the planet & society.
rozap 5y ago
This argument is the famous comic "yet you participate in society yourself, very interesting. I am very clever". You know the one. It's impossible to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels. Come on my dude.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > It's impossible to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels. Come on my dude. There's a massive middle ground between "attempting to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels" and ignoring any personal accountability for willfully over-relying on fossil fuels to do things like drive half a mile to the neighbors.
  - rozap 5y ago
    Sounds like we agree, carbon should be taxed proportional to the externalities. Sounds like a job for the government. Except that the people making policies are influenced by...ah yes, those same billionaires who have a vested interest in fossil fuels that the article is on about.
Arrath 5y ago
You're right, it would be a net gain for the environment if everyone who ever burned an ounce of petroleum was lined up against a wall. However, it may be more productive to start with those who chose to and were actively engaged in misrepresenting the facts and science and lying to all the suckers who were essentially forced to buy the products they were selling to be able to participate in the economy.

rektide 5y ago

The whole damned point is that consumers were being actively disinformed about their decisions. Turning around & asking, why weren't we holding consumers accountable for their purchases, when they are being actively manipulated & lied to, is not particularly high in my rank of questions to drill into & explore.

Ansil849 5y ago
All consumers are being lied to and manipulated, that is the entire purpose of marketing. At some point, individual accountability has to be taken into consideration. You can't get by in life by just claiming to have been suckered every time.
- rektide 5y ago
  big big line between manipulated & being lied too, to me. i hope most marketters would not have so cavalierly group these in the same bucket, especially when the the lie is an existential threat to all known life. but i hope just lying alone is a fairly big no no for most marketters; i for one believe in a society with ethics. there's probably some laws regulating consumer disinformation too, icd wager; certainly i'd expect it to open up the liar to liability lawsuits. and it's not just consumers, everyone was bilked by these lying disinformationing Captain Planet grade villians. government policies were influenced & made based off research these folks paid to shape. the media told different stories. ultimately i actually agree: we all are accountable. one of those responsibilities is identifying the lying liars trying to set the world's pants afire. and stopping them from hurting the planet & society.

rozap 5y ago

This argument is the famous comic "yet you participate in society yourself, very interesting. I am very clever". You know the one. It's impossible to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels. Come on my dude.

Ansil849 5y ago
> It's impossible to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels. Come on my dude. There's a massive middle ground between "attempting to exist in modern society without using fossil fuels" and ignoring any personal accountability for willfully over-relying on fossil fuels to do things like drive half a mile to the neighbors.
- rozap 5y ago
  Sounds like we agree, carbon should be taxed proportional to the externalities. Sounds like a job for the government. Except that the people making policies are influenced by...ah yes, those same billionaires who have a vested interest in fossil fuels that the article is on about.

Arrath 5y ago

You're right, it would be a net gain for the environment if everyone who ever burned an ounce of petroleum was lined up against a wall. However, it may be more productive to start with those who chose to and were actively engaged in misrepresenting the facts and science and lying to all the suckers who were essentially forced to buy the products they were selling to be able to participate in the economy.