3 ms·

What is your point? That it's acceptable to kill or otherwise maim creatures which are not endangered, like, say, humans?

ceejayoz 5y ago
There's a potential ethical difference between wiping out, say, a bee hive and wiping out bees as a species, yes.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Except that's not what the question I was responding to is implying. It seems to be implying it is OK to be doing harm to species which are not endangered.
seattle_spring 5y ago
Yes, killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any other reason). Any other questions?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  So you don't see the absurdity of this? At all? You're literally saying killing people is more acceptable than killing elephants.
  - seattle_spring 5y ago
    I'm, uh, not literally saying that at all. No one kills humans for sustenance, and cattle do not have the same value as humans. The absurdity is in your PETA-fueled absolutism of giving all living beings an equal level of value. I'm going to eat a huge, expensive steak tonight just to cancel out the energy you've put into this conversation.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      You stated, plain as day: > killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any other reason). Any other questions? Humans are non-endangered animals, are they not? Therefore you are _literally_ saying killing humans for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace.
      - sillysaurusx 5y ago
        Listen. You're right. There, I gave you validation. But you're not going to change anyone's mind. So what's the point? Remember, the primary purpose of HN is entertainment (intellectual gratification). Internalizing this helped me break the habit of making such arguments "just to be right." I'll throw it back at you: Yes, I just ate two pork steaks. I have two more in the fridge. In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. It is literally fine to use humans for sustenance if everyone collectively agrees it's fine, by the way. People have done it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 You could argue "Well, that was survival. Besides, those people were already dead." Literally every animal born into factory farming is already dead. They just don't realize it yet. I think linking to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzgesagt%E2%80%93InaNutshell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzg... is probably your best bet at even getting people to stop and think about the question at all. Yet if even Kurzgesagt's eloquence doesn't make a dent (I still scarf down pork steaks on a regular basis), what hope do you have here? Once you internalize all of this, perhaps you'll be in a frame of mind to realize that it was off-topic to bring up factory farming in a thread about ivory poaching. I get where you're coming from, and I agree that it seems closely related. But things like this just aren't worth litigating; broadcasting your own morals to a wide audience is rarely a good idea.
        Ansil849 5y ago

ceejayoz 5y ago

There's a potential ethical difference between wiping out, say, a bee hive and wiping out bees as a species, yes.

Ansil849 5y ago
Except that's not what the question I was responding to is implying. It seems to be implying it is OK to be doing harm to species which are not endangered.

seattle_spring 5y ago

Yes, killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any other reason). Any other questions?

Ansil849 5y ago
So you don't see the absurdity of this? At all? You're literally saying killing people is more acceptable than killing elephants.
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  I'm, uh, not literally saying that at all. No one kills humans for sustenance, and cattle do not have the same value as humans. The absurdity is in your PETA-fueled absolutism of giving all living beings an equal level of value. I'm going to eat a huge, expensive steak tonight just to cancel out the energy you've put into this conversation.
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    You stated, plain as day: > killing a non-endangered animal for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace pendant (or any other reason). Any other questions? Humans are non-endangered animals, are they not? Therefore you are _literally_ saying killing humans for sustenance is more acceptable than killing an endangered animal for a necklace.
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      Listen. You're right. There, I gave you validation. But you're not going to change anyone's mind. So what's the point? Remember, the primary purpose of HN is entertainment (intellectual gratification). Internalizing this helped me break the habit of making such arguments "just to be right." I'll throw it back at you: Yes, I just ate two pork steaks. I have two more in the fridge. In fact, I'd personally murder a family of pigs if it was the only way I'd ever be able to eat pork steaks again. They're that delicious, and I am that selfish. Life isn't nice. It's brutal, short, and sprinkled with periods of happiness and ecstasy. It's always been that way, and it'll be that way long after we're gone. It is literally fine to use humans for sustenance if everyone collectively agrees it's fine, by the way. People have done it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571 You could argue "Well, that was survival. Besides, those people were already dead." Literally every animal born into factory farming is already dead. They just don't realize it yet. I think linking to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzgesagt%E2%80%93InaNutshell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg&ab_channel=Kurzg... is probably your best bet at even getting people to stop and think about the question at all. Yet if even Kurzgesagt's eloquence doesn't make a dent (I still scarf down pork steaks on a regular basis), what hope do you have here? Once you internalize all of this, perhaps you'll be in a frame of mind to realize that it was off-topic to bring up factory farming in a thread about ivory poaching. I get where you're coming from, and I agree that it seems closely related. But things like this just aren't worth litigating; broadcasting your own morals to a wide audience is rarely a good idea.
      - Ansil849 5y ago