4 ms·

They could manage without our legal system, I'm sure, but I think there's some profundity in the military point. It does no good to create some sort of utopia i

by jerf 5y ago

They could manage without our legal system, I'm sure, but I think there's some profundity in the military point. It does no good to create some sort of utopia if that utopia hasn't got an answer to smart bombs or paratroopers, etc. The fundamental game theory of the modern world's arms race has to be considered in any attempt to structure the perfect society.

zepto 5y ago
Our legal system is what protects their land and property from just being taken by other Americans. It also allows them to maintain a lifestyle with minimal interaction with the state.
- philwelch 5y ago
  One of the fundamental purposes of any legal system is to protect people's land and property from being taken by others. Furthermore, allowing people to maintain their lifestyle with minimal interaction with the state is probably the best possible use of the state in the first place.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Agreed, and the American one at least has this in mind, broken as it may be. Not so many others.
- jerf 5y ago
  There are ways other than legal systems to prevent that. I'm sure they would have no problem deploying their own police forces and providing basic protections against anyone less than a military force who would try to just take their land. Military forces are a separate problem from legal problems. I think rather a lot of the people rushing to correct me are conflating the two in their heads. When you say "just being taken by other Americans", are you thinking of a rogue criminal or some sort of organized invasion? Personally, I suspect that even if you tried the sort of organized invasion that a civilian might try to put together that you'd still find yourself up against some stiff resistance. Criminals in general are less than excited about stealing from people when they can almost count on being shot at. They steal from people who won't shoot at them. The problem is when you get to military levels of invasion, at the level where you start putting together forces that count on being shot at and still overpowering you.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > I'm sure they would have no problem deploying their own police forces and providing basic protections against anyone less than a military force who would try to just take their land. Sounds like a militia. Also, you don’t seem to be being taking seriously what it means not to have a legal system. For example why are you talking about criminals? If there is no legal system, there are no criminals. A bunch of guys with AR-15s and pick up-trucks and walkie talkies really wouldn’t find it hard to displace a religious community who are relying on old hunting rifles, horse drawn buggies, and no wireless comms, especially since the Amish would have families to protect.
op00to 5y ago
Could they? If they were outside the legal system I would simply steal their land and build McMansions on it.
- ksdale 5y ago
  Are laws the only thing preventing you from stealing?
  - vkou 5y ago
    They are the only thing preventing someone less scrupulous than me from stealing.
    - kymaz 5y ago
      That and getting shot.
      - vkou 5y ago
        If you're going to escalate in that direction, I'll point out that an organized group of criminals will happily escalate the issue to the point where 'Just use your guns for self-defense' is not going to end in your favor. They'll only need to make an example out of a few people to make it clear that giving in to their demands is much cheaper than fighting them.
        daniel-cussen 5y ago
        I have my doubts about how little this scum fears death when it's really imminent eg death row; how intrinsically lucky they are to escalate and escalate, always win and never lose; and how fearlessly they react when faced with a man who hasn't crossed the law trains his gun on them, for a legitimate reason.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  If they were outside the legal system, they could retaliate in any way they see fit. You would have to commit a trail-of-tears esque genocide to claim their land
ithkuil 5y ago
The legal system is equivalent to the military support when your talking about internal threats (rival groups with modern weapons or resources claiming their land for themselves)
Bancakes 5y ago
We need Spartans and Athenians.

by jerf 5y ago

zepto 5y ago

Our legal system is what protects their land and property from just being taken by other Americans. It also allows them to maintain a lifestyle with minimal interaction with the state.

philwelch 5y ago
One of the fundamental purposes of any legal system is to protect people's land and property from being taken by others. Furthermore, allowing people to maintain their lifestyle with minimal interaction with the state is probably the best possible use of the state in the first place.
- zepto 5y ago
  Agreed, and the American one at least has this in mind, broken as it may be. Not so many others.
jerf 5y ago
There are ways other than legal systems to prevent that. I'm sure they would have no problem deploying their own police forces and providing basic protections against anyone less than a military force who would try to just take their land. Military forces are a separate problem from legal problems. I think rather a lot of the people rushing to correct me are conflating the two in their heads. When you say "just being taken by other Americans", are you thinking of a rogue criminal or some sort of organized invasion? Personally, I suspect that even if you tried the sort of organized invasion that a civilian might try to put together that you'd still find yourself up against some stiff resistance. Criminals in general are less than excited about stealing from people when they can almost count on being shot at. They steal from people who won't shoot at them. The problem is when you get to military levels of invasion, at the level where you start putting together forces that count on being shot at and still overpowering you.
- zepto 5y ago
  > I'm sure they would have no problem deploying their own police forces and providing basic protections against anyone less than a military force who would try to just take their land. Sounds like a militia. Also, you don’t seem to be being taking seriously what it means not to have a legal system. For example why are you talking about criminals? If there is no legal system, there are no criminals. A bunch of guys with AR-15s and pick up-trucks and walkie talkies really wouldn’t find it hard to displace a religious community who are relying on old hunting rifles, horse drawn buggies, and no wireless comms, especially since the Amish would have families to protect.

op00to 5y ago

Could they? If they were outside the legal system I would simply steal their land and build McMansions on it.

ksdale 5y ago
Are laws the only thing preventing you from stealing?
- vkou 5y ago
  They are the only thing preventing someone less scrupulous than me from stealing.
  - kymaz 5y ago
    That and getting shot.
    - vkou 5y ago
      If you're going to escalate in that direction, I'll point out that an organized group of criminals will happily escalate the issue to the point where 'Just use your guns for self-defense' is not going to end in your favor. They'll only need to make an example out of a few people to make it clear that giving in to their demands is much cheaper than fighting them.
      - daniel-cussen 5y ago
        I have my doubts about how little this scum fears death when it's really imminent eg death row; how intrinsically lucky they are to escalate and escalate, always win and never lose; and how fearlessly they react when faced with a man who hasn't crossed the law trains his gun on them, for a legitimate reason.
dahfizz 5y ago
If they were outside the legal system, they could retaliate in any way they see fit. You would have to commit a trail-of-tears esque genocide to claim their land

ithkuil 5y ago

The legal system is equivalent to the military support when your talking about internal threats (rival groups with modern weapons or resources claiming their land for themselves)

Bancakes 5y ago

We need Spartans and Athenians.