6 ms·

MacBook Pro 14 menu bar UX

35 points by ushakov 5y ago

ushakov 5y ago
sorry, i linked the second tweet here's the link to the beginning of the thread: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 still the behaviour is ridiculous and is something i wouldn't expect from Apple
CubsFan1060 5y ago
This seems to be the most overly dramatic description of a bug that I have ever seen.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  Indeed. And he doesn't even say whether he's using Monterey GA or one of the betas. This is just attention seeking, really.
- lordleft 5y ago
  I mean, this is not an uncommon situation for a MacOS user to be in, so I share Quinn's shock that this made it to release.
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    If it is common, then why the shock -_-a?
    - happytoexplain 5y ago
      The word "this" does not refer to the bug, it refers to the use case that produces the bug. I.e. it is shocking that a dramatic/obvious UI bug in a common use case was not caught.
- tekacs 5y ago
  I had the same reaction initially. For anyone else looking -- the poster linked to the second tweet in the thread. The first tweet [1] shows that menubar items are /hidden behind the notch/ (fully rendered, you can click and interact with them). I took a screenshot [2]. As issues go, that's a pretty dramatic bug, no? [1]: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 [2]: https://cln.sh/OwM0wgFCTUF6EP5EsJAA https://cln.sh/OwM0wgFCTUF6EP5EsJAA
  - lelandfe 5y ago
    It’s been a LONG time since I worked on menubar stuff in macOS, but is it possible that this is happening because iStat is drawing the icons in a non-standard way? Can this happen to a menubar with just stock menus - say by reducing the display resolution?
    - tekacs 5y ago
      https://twitter.com/bjango/status/1453171506263982087?s=20 https://twitter.com/bjango/status/1453171506263982087?s=20 iStat replied to this post to say that they're not!
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - ushakov 5y ago
      yes, in the demo same thing happens to the macOS battery menu
  - Hammershaft 5y ago
    This was the first thing I wondered when I saw that notch. I figured there would be overflow "more" menus before the notch but uh... nope. Really lazy and weak design tbh.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  I guess one man's overly dramatic is another man's laughter at the absurd. Or, perhaps you missed the "laughing so hard I'm crying" emoji? Anyway - this is exactly what Apple wanted. They knew it would make people talk. They also knew that some faction of Apple worshipers would come along to downplay any and all issues with it. Apple can do what they want and the zealots can think what they want, but we can enjoy laughing at them when they fall flat on their face too right?
- listless 5y ago
  I don’t know. This is a pretty obvious and clumsy bug to ship in your flagship OS. I think it deserves the ridicule. We gotta laugh at something these days and Apple is a guaranteed punch up.
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  Someone complained about file search on MacOS not defaulting to current folder in a recent thread :) It’s a setting in finder preferences and that person knew it but hated the default and described it as an ongoing bug in multiple is releases. I found that entertaining but also a good indicator of the level of frustration caused by small inconveniences.
Larrikin 5y ago
I'm guessing that Apple will eventually need to release an update that will render Bartender obsolete. I like the product but always seemed like a feature that should be built into the OS.
jabberwik 5y ago
So what happens if there's actually space on the left side of the notch to put something? In this video, the app menu is already bumped up against the notch, so I'm not sure what they expected.
- cududa 5y ago
  Then the item overflows to the left. This applet just renders the whole set of icons as a single block instead of individually.
Tsarbomb 5y ago
I really think the MBP notch is not long for this world. The moment I saw it announced and found out it didn't do facial recognition I knew Apple itself was hesitating on it. Even the perfect SDK for building out applications cannot solve the issue when you need to fullscreen a window or application. It really does feel like an absurd design choice. I still don't like how it looks like on my iPhone and I would hate the notch on a laptop.
- acdha 5y ago
  The key thing to remember is that the screen is larger than it used to be, making this tradeoff understandable: when you use compatibility mode — which is the default — a full screen app will start below the notch, giving it an uninterrupted space which is still taller than the previous version's screen. https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/macos/app-architecture/fullscreen-mode/ https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline... Anyone who needs every last bit of width for their menus can set the NSPrefersDisplaySafeAreaCompatibilityMode flag in their plist, as well. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/information_property_list/nsprefersdisplaysafeareacompatibilitymode/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/in...
  - culopatin 5y ago
    How much bigger is it? I’m trying to buy my first MacBook after using a hackintosh for years. I currently use a 14in laptop and it’s a perfect size, and I love working outside so the high brightness sounds perfect for me. But is this worth $500? I want 16gb so it’s not a 1k difference vs the 8gb air, making the $2k look less bad, but is the screen real estate that different?
    - Tagbert 5y ago
      It is 74px of additional vertical space. This change moves the permanent menu bar out of application space into a new menu bar space. you are getting somewhere around 50-60px additional in application space. It also improved the user experience for full screen mode. Previously in full screen, the menu bar is hidden. If you move the mouse to near that area, the menu bar appears and jumps down. It’s janky and sometimes you can trigger that by accident just trying to click on something near the top of the app. for full screen now, the menu bar location is fixed and outside of the app space. It can be visible or hidden by a black bar, but it doesn’t jump around and it’s harder to accidentally trigger it.
ck__ 5y ago
What size is bezel in new MBP?
ninkendo 5y ago
What happens on non-notch macs, if the active app has enough menu items that your menubar is full? What would happen to the iStat app (or any other menu item?) Would it be drawn-over? Perhaps partially so? I honestly have never even come close to this scenario on any desktop/laptop (even when I try my best to make it happen, like launching every menubar app I know of, and setting the display settings to the highest zoom level) so I don’t even know what the behavior is. It seems to me like the notch is removing something like 10% of your available menubar area, but… that’s not that much. If you’re running into issues where menubar items have to draw into the notch area, it stands to reason you’re running very close to not being able to see them even without the notch, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edit: I was able to get my 2016 MBP to have an overflowed menubar, by setting the display settings to “Larger Text” and opening Xcode (which has a lot of menus). It straight-up drops menu items that aren’t able to be rendered… no overflow scrolling or anything. You have to switch to another app (with fewer menus) to see the missing items. I guess the notch makes this 10% or so more likely to happen?
SigmundA 5y ago
Menu always overwrites status icons if not enough space for both. Nothing new other than slightly less menu space causing this old behavior to occur on wider screen than it did before with apps having lots of menus. Status icons being able to go under the notch would be bug they should flow around notch just like menu items.
- cududa 5y ago
  They do overflow. They weren't using the documented API - the whole collection of icons was rendered as a single block.
stunt 5y ago
That's probably why they made it so big! This way when they introduce Face ID in upcoming devices it isn't going to introduce a new set of bugs. Less stress to the ecosystem but still silly.

35 points by ushakov 5y ago

sorry, i linked the second tweet here's the link to the beginning of the thread: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 still the behaviour is ridiculous and is something i wouldn't expect from Apple

CubsFan1060 5y ago

This seems to be the most overly dramatic description of a bug that I have ever seen.

cassianoleal 5y ago
Indeed. And he doesn't even say whether he's using Monterey GA or one of the betas. This is just attention seeking, really.
lordleft 5y ago
I mean, this is not an uncommon situation for a MacOS user to be in, so I share Quinn's shock that this made it to release.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  If it is common, then why the shock -_-a?
  - happytoexplain 5y ago
    The word "this" does not refer to the bug, it refers to the use case that produces the bug. I.e. it is shocking that a dramatic/obvious UI bug in a common use case was not caught.
tekacs 5y ago
I had the same reaction initially. For anyone else looking -- the poster linked to the second tweet in the thread. The first tweet [1] shows that menubar items are /hidden behind the notch/ (fully rendered, you can click and interact with them). I took a screenshot [2]. As issues go, that's a pretty dramatic bug, no? [1]: https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 https://twitter.com/SnazzyQ/status/1453143510111059968 [2]: https://cln.sh/OwM0wgFCTUF6EP5EsJAA https://cln.sh/OwM0wgFCTUF6EP5EsJAA
- lelandfe 5y ago
  It’s been a LONG time since I worked on menubar stuff in macOS, but is it possible that this is happening because iStat is drawing the icons in a non-standard way? Can this happen to a menubar with just stock menus - say by reducing the display resolution?
  - tekacs 5y ago
    https://twitter.com/bjango/status/1453171506263982087?s=20 https://twitter.com/bjango/status/1453171506263982087?s=20 iStat replied to this post to say that they're not!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - ushakov 5y ago
    yes, in the demo same thing happens to the macOS battery menu
- Hammershaft 5y ago
  This was the first thing I wondered when I saw that notch. I figured there would be overflow "more" menus before the notch but uh... nope. Really lazy and weak design tbh.
wayneftw 5y ago
I guess one man's overly dramatic is another man's laughter at the absurd. Or, perhaps you missed the "laughing so hard I'm crying" emoji? Anyway - this is exactly what Apple wanted. They knew it would make people talk. They also knew that some faction of Apple worshipers would come along to downplay any and all issues with it. Apple can do what they want and the zealots can think what they want, but we can enjoy laughing at them when they fall flat on their face too right?
listless 5y ago
I don’t know. This is a pretty obvious and clumsy bug to ship in your flagship OS. I think it deserves the ridicule. We gotta laugh at something these days and Apple is a guaranteed punch up.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
Someone complained about file search on MacOS not defaulting to current folder in a recent thread :) It’s a setting in finder preferences and that person knew it but hated the default and described it as an ongoing bug in multiple is releases. I found that entertaining but also a good indicator of the level of frustration caused by small inconveniences.

Larrikin 5y ago

I'm guessing that Apple will eventually need to release an update that will render Bartender obsolete. I like the product but always seemed like a feature that should be built into the OS.

jabberwik 5y ago

So what happens if there's actually space on the left side of the notch to put something? In this video, the app menu is already bumped up against the notch, so I'm not sure what they expected.

cududa 5y ago
Then the item overflows to the left. This applet just renders the whole set of icons as a single block instead of individually.

Tsarbomb 5y ago

I really think the MBP notch is not long for this world. The moment I saw it announced and found out it didn't do facial recognition I knew Apple itself was hesitating on it. Even the perfect SDK for building out applications cannot solve the issue when you need to fullscreen a window or application. It really does feel like an absurd design choice. I still don't like how it looks like on my iPhone and I would hate the notch on a laptop.

acdha 5y ago
The key thing to remember is that the screen is larger than it used to be, making this tradeoff understandable: when you use compatibility mode — which is the default — a full screen app will start below the notch, giving it an uninterrupted space which is still taller than the previous version's screen. https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/macos/app-architecture/fullscreen-mode/ https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline... Anyone who needs every last bit of width for their menus can set the NSPrefersDisplaySafeAreaCompatibilityMode flag in their plist, as well. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/information_property_list/nsprefersdisplaysafeareacompatibilitymode/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/in...
- culopatin 5y ago
  How much bigger is it? I’m trying to buy my first MacBook after using a hackintosh for years. I currently use a 14in laptop and it’s a perfect size, and I love working outside so the high brightness sounds perfect for me. But is this worth $500? I want 16gb so it’s not a 1k difference vs the 8gb air, making the $2k look less bad, but is the screen real estate that different?
  - Tagbert 5y ago
    It is 74px of additional vertical space. This change moves the permanent menu bar out of application space into a new menu bar space. you are getting somewhere around 50-60px additional in application space. It also improved the user experience for full screen mode. Previously in full screen, the menu bar is hidden. If you move the mouse to near that area, the menu bar appears and jumps down. It’s janky and sometimes you can trigger that by accident just trying to click on something near the top of the app. for full screen now, the menu bar location is fixed and outside of the app space. It can be visible or hidden by a black bar, but it doesn’t jump around and it’s harder to accidentally trigger it.

ck__ 5y ago

What size is bezel in new MBP?

ninkendo 5y ago

What happens on non-notch macs, if the active app has enough menu items that your menubar is full? What would happen to the iStat app (or any other menu item?) Would it be drawn-over? Perhaps partially so? I honestly have never even come close to this scenario on any desktop/laptop (even when I try my best to make it happen, like launching every menubar app I know of, and setting the display settings to the highest zoom level) so I don’t even know what the behavior is. It seems to me like the notch is removing something like 10% of your available menubar area, but… that’s not that much. If you’re running into issues where menubar items have to draw into the notch area, it stands to reason you’re running very close to not being able to see them even without the notch, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edit: I was able to get my 2016 MBP to have an overflowed menubar, by setting the display settings to “Larger Text” and opening Xcode (which has a lot of menus). It straight-up drops menu items that aren’t able to be rendered… no overflow scrolling or anything. You have to switch to another app (with fewer menus) to see the missing items. I guess the notch makes this 10% or so more likely to happen?

SigmundA 5y ago

Menu always overwrites status icons if not enough space for both. Nothing new other than slightly less menu space causing this old behavior to occur on wider screen than it did before with apps having lots of menus. Status icons being able to go under the notch would be bug they should flow around notch just like menu items.

cududa 5y ago
They do overflow. They weren't using the documented API - the whole collection of icons was rendered as a single block.

stunt 5y ago

That's probably why they made it so big! This way when they introduce Face ID in upcoming devices it isn't going to introduce a new set of bugs. Less stress to the ecosystem but still silly.