8 ms·

Physician scientist here -- this is a unique and somewhat odd case where Martha prefers to use the iron lung over modern alternatives. She would likely do fine

Physician scientist here -- this is a unique and somewhat odd case where Martha prefers to use the iron lung over modern alternatives. She would likely do fine with a modern non-invasive positive pressure ventilation (NIPPV) approach. There are many patients with other illnesses (COPD, ALS, etc.) that depend on nocturnal ventilation -- most commonly nocturnal BiPAP (two pressure levels that support respiratory muscles).

skrbjc 5y ago
I wonder why this isn't mentioned anywhere? If she is worried about not having parts for the iron lung, it's more about her preference to use it than whether she can live or not, it would seem.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Journalists diagnosing someone and proposing new treatments seems a bit outside their skillset.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    OTOH, it would be great if the journalist could take her experience and bounce it off an expert and report what they said. Otherwise it's just a biography.
    - morelisp 5y ago
      > Otherwise it's just a biography. The article is a sample of the PRX show "Radio Diaries". It's supposed to be a biography.
- masklinn 5y ago
  The article quotes: > "I've tried all the forms of ventilation, and the iron lung is the most efficient and the best and the most comfortable way," she told Radio Diaries. At no point does it say that she can not use any alternative.
  - skrbjc 5y ago
    Whoops, sorry I must have missed that, thanks for pointing it out.
teruakohatu 5y ago
> "I look at it as a friend, as a very dear friend." It seems understandable that a person might become attached to a device that keeps them alive. Also it might be more comfortable for her sleeping without a mask on, if she is used to the sound of the motor.
mikesabbagh 5y ago
I am sure she tried a CPAP or something better suited for her needs. Maybe Sleeping with a mask on your face is more disturbing than sleeping neck high inside a machine. She definitely tried a face mask and determined this machine is better. But most people on CPAP did not get the chance to try an iron lung. So Maybe this is a chance to create a new product, any entrepreneurs here?
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Personally I can't handle a regular CPAP mask. If I didn't figure out a way to make the nasal mask work for me, I'd probably end up ditching the CPAP altogether.
  - TylerE 5y ago
    What pressure are you running at? I find anything less than about 12-14 feels suffocating.
- treeman79 5y ago
  Took me a year to get used to cpap. Absolutely hated it. Now I’m terrified to go without
Pxtl 5y ago
She's slept in an iron lung for over 60 years. I imagine adjusting to sleeping in a more modern system would be incredibly difficult.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  Definitely. Imagine just trying to change how you sleep if you're a back or side or stomach sleeper. For most people that would be pretty difficult, I think. It seems like this is an even more dramatic change.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Difficult but hardly undoable. My dad didn't get a CPAP until he was in his 70s. Turned him into a believer, even though he had to relearn how to sleep. My father-in-law had to sleep in an easy chair after his bypass surgery, and then relearn how to sleep in a bed after that. So it may be difficult, but people do it all the time especially when it improves their quality of life.
    - 14 5y ago
      I work in healthcare and see these machines all the time. They seem way less invasive then a giant metal lung and would not be hard to adjust to. I wish I had one for days when I am sick like with a flu they seem like they would make breathing much easier.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        I have enough trouble with the face mask that I can appreciate how some people don't really adapt well to it. I can handle the nasal mask, but attempts to use the face have failed every time. They do help with colds, at least, they keep me from being stuffed up at night no matter what happens during the day.
da_chicken 5y ago
Eh, there's a league of difference between "does fine" and "does well". I'm willing to bet she's had many doctors suggest modern alternatives and that she's tried alternatives, not the least because iron lungs are generally not produced anymore so they're more difficult to maintain and can't easily be replaced. However, if she truly prefers it and it's therapeutic and she's able to maintain the device... what's the problem? "This other thing is a newer treatment," isn't really a description of efficacy or appropriateness or therapeutic benefit or patient comfort or outcome. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's bad. A treatment that's proven to be effective for 50+ years shouldn't be discarded out-of-hand because newer treatments exist.
kaitai 5y ago
In the audio version I listened to, Martha mentioned that she'd tried a bunch and they did not work well for her.

skrbjc 5y ago

I wonder why this isn't mentioned anywhere? If she is worried about not having parts for the iron lung, it's more about her preference to use it than whether she can live or not, it would seem.

MattGaiser 5y ago
Journalists diagnosing someone and proposing new treatments seems a bit outside their skillset.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  OTOH, it would be great if the journalist could take her experience and bounce it off an expert and report what they said. Otherwise it's just a biography.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    > Otherwise it's just a biography. The article is a sample of the PRX show "Radio Diaries". It's supposed to be a biography.
masklinn 5y ago
The article quotes: > "I've tried all the forms of ventilation, and the iron lung is the most efficient and the best and the most comfortable way," she told Radio Diaries. At no point does it say that she can not use any alternative.
- skrbjc 5y ago
  Whoops, sorry I must have missed that, thanks for pointing it out.

teruakohatu 5y ago

> "I look at it as a friend, as a very dear friend." It seems understandable that a person might become attached to a device that keeps them alive. Also it might be more comfortable for her sleeping without a mask on, if she is used to the sound of the motor.

mikesabbagh 5y ago

I am sure she tried a CPAP or something better suited for her needs. Maybe Sleeping with a mask on your face is more disturbing than sleeping neck high inside a machine. She definitely tried a face mask and determined this machine is better. But most people on CPAP did not get the chance to try an iron lung. So Maybe this is a chance to create a new product, any entrepreneurs here?

rootusrootus 5y ago
Personally I can't handle a regular CPAP mask. If I didn't figure out a way to make the nasal mask work for me, I'd probably end up ditching the CPAP altogether.
- TylerE 5y ago
  What pressure are you running at? I find anything less than about 12-14 feels suffocating.
treeman79 5y ago
Took me a year to get used to cpap. Absolutely hated it. Now I’m terrified to go without

Pxtl 5y ago

She's slept in an iron lung for over 60 years. I imagine adjusting to sleeping in a more modern system would be incredibly difficult.

idiotsecant 5y ago
Definitely. Imagine just trying to change how you sleep if you're a back or side or stomach sleeper. For most people that would be pretty difficult, I think. It seems like this is an even more dramatic change.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Difficult but hardly undoable. My dad didn't get a CPAP until he was in his 70s. Turned him into a believer, even though he had to relearn how to sleep. My father-in-law had to sleep in an easy chair after his bypass surgery, and then relearn how to sleep in a bed after that. So it may be difficult, but people do it all the time especially when it improves their quality of life.
  - 14 5y ago
    I work in healthcare and see these machines all the time. They seem way less invasive then a giant metal lung and would not be hard to adjust to. I wish I had one for days when I am sick like with a flu they seem like they would make breathing much easier.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      I have enough trouble with the face mask that I can appreciate how some people don't really adapt well to it. I can handle the nasal mask, but attempts to use the face have failed every time. They do help with colds, at least, they keep me from being stuffed up at night no matter what happens during the day.

da_chicken 5y ago

Eh, there's a league of difference between "does fine" and "does well". I'm willing to bet she's had many doctors suggest modern alternatives and that she's tried alternatives, not the least because iron lungs are generally not produced anymore so they're more difficult to maintain and can't easily be replaced. However, if she truly prefers it and it's therapeutic and she's able to maintain the device... what's the problem? "This other thing is a newer treatment," isn't really a description of efficacy or appropriateness or therapeutic benefit or patient comfort or outcome. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's bad. A treatment that's proven to be effective for 50+ years shouldn't be discarded out-of-hand because newer treatments exist.

kaitai 5y ago

In the audio version I listened to, Martha mentioned that she'd tried a bunch and they did not work well for her.