8 ms·

The amount of insinuations, accusations and anti-American/tech/white/male/journalism sentiments packed into such a small thread is incredible. It's a news stor

The amount of insinuations, accusations and anti-American/tech/white/male/journalism sentiments packed into such a small thread is incredible. It's a news story about a health patient, yet Naomi seems to expect NPR to act as Martha's personal insurer and care advocate. Would it have been better if NPR didn't publish it at all? Then Naomi would never have been given the chance to virtue signal for exposure. Lose-lose.

MattGaiser 5y ago
I am curious how NPR would even have known about her beyond trawling Twitter for anything related to Martha.
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  Youtube https://youtu.be/4VKZTmTP7oY https://youtu.be/4VKZTmTP7oY Wired https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community
  - junon 5y ago
    And the Wired article is the first result on Google for "martha iron lung parts". Even more, Martha herself commented on her video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VKZTmTP7oY&lc=UgyYG8WsY8fN4hNTxop4AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VKZTmTP7oY&lc=UgyYG8WsY8fN4...
- kevmo 5y ago
  Reviewing other comments, it looks like NPR either didn't do a google search or decided to leave out a lot of relevant parts of this story. I think it's fair to discuss NPR as propaganda here.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    Propaganda for what, though, in this case?
    - kevmo 5y ago
      I am inclined to agree with Ms. Wu's assessment: > And of course- when someone does something, but they aren't the right kind of someone let's pretend her name did not come up at the top of the search when you fact-checked this story right @NPRHealth ? Just say you want a straight white American tech bro to do it. NPR is rife with bias, if you know how to look for it. I recommend reading Propaganda by Ed Bernays & then thinking about why the people who make huge donations to NPR make those donations (IMO, it's because NPR largely exists to reinforce the existing social structure).
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        > IMO, it's because NPR largely exists to reinforce the existing social structure Can you expound on this? I have come to a similar observation, but would be interested in hearing what specifically they’re reinforcing.
      - morelisp 5y ago
        You're making sweeping general claims about the media which I agree with, but I'm asking specifically about this story. To the extent I would classify NPR as propaganda, it's (currently) for a particular half-progressive/half-third-way American liberalism that would love to have a story about a scrappy DIY global supply chain saving someone in Oklahoma. ETA (since I'm rate-limited...): > Do tell us more about NPR's liberal bias. Sure. By telling these kind of fables about how global capitalism is actually good for everybody, they're trying to prevent growing class consciousness that would eventually force fundamental, revolutionary change to how we allocate resources. Oh wait, you thought I was to the right of NPR? Sorry, no, that probability distribution is barely distinguishable from Nazism at this point. Also no one to the right of NPR would ever use the term "third-way" in criticism of it.
        setpatchaddress 5y ago
        Ah, that explains your attitude here. Do tell us more about NPR's liberal bias.
        5y ago
vadfa 5y ago
Mentally ill person yelling racial slurs on a street corner, news at 11.
dralley 5y ago
Naomi Wu has had poor experiences with western news outlets - Vice news outed her against her will in a piece they wrote on her, and she lives in a country that doesn't have an especially liberal attitude towards homosexuality. So there is understandably some salt on that basis, but also... In this case plenty of other news outlets have covered her in their articles about Martha: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community As far as "tech/white/male", you really only have to read the comments people post in any thread about her on Reddit to figure that one out. I can't even imagine what her inbox must look like.
- junon 5y ago
  Especially since for anyone reading the article it's clear why she's (rightfully) annoyed. > She has only a handful of collars left. "I really am desperate," she says. "That's the most scary thing in my life right now — is not finding anybody that can make those collars." Naomi does a lot of interesting work and is snubbed quite a lot. She made it quite public that this was happening and yet NPR still snubbed her.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    I mean there's also plenty of other options, like the parts didn't fundamentally work and it's easier to just forget about it and write a new article than risk another media blowup by bringing a Twitter personality into a story that's not really about her?
    - junon 5y ago
      That makes absolutely zero sense, though. She's also not a twitter personality. She's a full-blown engineer with a very popular Youtube channel and following and has done these sorts of things quite often.
      - morelisp 5y ago
        Whatever else she also is, she's absolutely a social media personality. > full-blown engineer This, I seriously doubt. As far as I know she's very deep in the DIY/maker scene, but I don't think she's been flashing around a PE cert. Or maybe we have a difference of opinion what a "full-blown engineer" is.
junon 5y ago
> yet Naomi seems to expect NPR to act as Martha's personal insurer and care advocate. No. She expects a reputable news outlet to fact check their own story, especially since they covered most of the same information the Wired article did 4 years ago - which, naturally, mentioned Wu.
- nend 5y ago
  Fact check doesn't seem to the right phrase here. Naomi donated collars years ago. Each collar lasts "a few months". Martha has a "handful left". Martha hasn't been able to find additional collars. What facts did NPR get wrong in the article? There could be all sorts of reasons NPR didn't mention Naomi. How did Martha get the collars before Naomi's donation? How many years of collar donations/purchases is NPR obligated to mention in their article? Is there anyone else outraged they didn't get mentioned for providing collars years ago?
kevmo 5y ago
I like NPR as much as the next person, but it is often used as a propaganda tool, so I think it's valid to question the underlying reasons behind publishing stories and the slants they take. And yeah, it sounds like NPR should have picked up on the maker community here. Articles which precede this one by years bring up Naomi Wu. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community Given this, I think it's fair for Ms. Wu to have a hot take on this. Highly recommend reading Propaganda by Ed Bernays. I saw it recommended on HN years ago, so I bought and read it -- it really helped make me a smarter consumer of news.
ramadan_steve 5y ago
“anti-American/tech/white/male/journalism sentiment”. That’s a lot to take out of a story about a woman with the polio. I’m sad what’s happening to this site.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> It's a news story about a health patient, yet Naomi seems to expect NPR to act as Martha's personal insurer and care advocate. No I think Wu just expects [0] NPR not to ignore relevant facts to construct a misleading narrative. > Then Naomi would never have been given the chance to virtue signal for exposure. Naomi Wu is hardly lacking in exposure opportunities or the ability to exploit them, so even if the basic false dichotomy you propose wasn't false, it wouldn't really be lose-lose for NPR and Wu. (NPR and Martha maybe, since the exposure, even starting in the misleading form NPR presented it, does probably make it more likely that her issue gets resolved, but that's where the false dilemma comes into play, since the story didn't actually have to be misleading.) [0] in the normative, but emphatically not the predictive, sense of the word.
Pxtl 5y ago
Naomi Wu really hates western journalists and tech-bros, and justifiably so. She's been doxxed, accused of being fake (they think her partner does all the work and she's just his model/actress), etc. So yeah, she has a humongous chip on her shoulder, and maybe she gets carried away with that anger, but the chip on her shoulder comes from some legitimate grievances. Regardless, she has a lot of respect in the maker space because she's one of the few people who says "oh yeah, we can jump in and come up with help for this medical/prosthetic problem" and doesn't half-ass it. She's very specific about that - this is one of those cases where Minimum Viable Product is unacceptable, these items need to stand up to real life and 24/7 contact with human skin.

MattGaiser 5y ago

I am curious how NPR would even have known about her beyond trawling Twitter for anything related to Martha.

themaninthedark 5y ago
Youtube https://youtu.be/4VKZTmTP7oY https://youtu.be/4VKZTmTP7oY Wired https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community
- junon 5y ago
  And the Wired article is the first result on Google for "martha iron lung parts". Even more, Martha herself commented on her video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VKZTmTP7oY&lc=UgyYG8WsY8fN4hNTxop4AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VKZTmTP7oY&lc=UgyYG8WsY8fN4...
kevmo 5y ago
Reviewing other comments, it looks like NPR either didn't do a google search or decided to leave out a lot of relevant parts of this story. I think it's fair to discuss NPR as propaganda here.
- morelisp 5y ago
  Propaganda for what, though, in this case?
  - kevmo 5y ago
    I am inclined to agree with Ms. Wu's assessment: > And of course- when someone does something, but they aren't the right kind of someone let's pretend her name did not come up at the top of the search when you fact-checked this story right @NPRHealth ? Just say you want a straight white American tech bro to do it. NPR is rife with bias, if you know how to look for it. I recommend reading Propaganda by Ed Bernays & then thinking about why the people who make huge donations to NPR make those donations (IMO, it's because NPR largely exists to reinforce the existing social structure).
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      > IMO, it's because NPR largely exists to reinforce the existing social structure Can you expound on this? I have come to a similar observation, but would be interested in hearing what specifically they’re reinforcing.
    - morelisp 5y ago
      You're making sweeping general claims about the media which I agree with, but I'm asking specifically about this story. To the extent I would classify NPR as propaganda, it's (currently) for a particular half-progressive/half-third-way American liberalism that would love to have a story about a scrappy DIY global supply chain saving someone in Oklahoma. ETA (since I'm rate-limited...): > Do tell us more about NPR's liberal bias. Sure. By telling these kind of fables about how global capitalism is actually good for everybody, they're trying to prevent growing class consciousness that would eventually force fundamental, revolutionary change to how we allocate resources. Oh wait, you thought I was to the right of NPR? Sorry, no, that probability distribution is barely distinguishable from Nazism at this point. Also no one to the right of NPR would ever use the term "third-way" in criticism of it.
      - setpatchaddress 5y ago
        Ah, that explains your attitude here. Do tell us more about NPR's liberal bias.
      - 5y ago

vadfa 5y ago

Mentally ill person yelling racial slurs on a street corner, news at 11.

dralley 5y ago

Naomi Wu has had poor experiences with western news outlets - Vice news outed her against her will in a piece they wrote on her, and she lives in a country that doesn't have an especially liberal attitude towards homosexuality. So there is understandably some salt on that basis, but also... In this case plenty of other news outlets have covered her in their articles about Martha: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community As far as "tech/white/male", you really only have to read the comments people post in any thread about her on Reddit to figure that one out. I can't even imagine what her inbox must look like.

junon 5y ago
Especially since for anyone reading the article it's clear why she's (rightfully) annoyed. > She has only a handful of collars left. "I really am desperate," she says. "That's the most scary thing in my life right now — is not finding anybody that can make those collars." Naomi does a lot of interesting work and is snubbed quite a lot. She made it quite public that this was happening and yet NPR still snubbed her.
- morelisp 5y ago
  I mean there's also plenty of other options, like the parts didn't fundamentally work and it's easier to just forget about it and write a new article than risk another media blowup by bringing a Twitter personality into a story that's not really about her?
  - junon 5y ago
    That makes absolutely zero sense, though. She's also not a twitter personality. She's a full-blown engineer with a very popular Youtube channel and following and has done these sorts of things quite often.
    - morelisp 5y ago
      Whatever else she also is, she's absolutely a social media personality. > full-blown engineer This, I seriously doubt. As far as I know she's very deep in the DIY/maker scene, but I don't think she's been flashing around a PE cert. Or maybe we have a difference of opinion what a "full-blown engineer" is.

junon 5y ago

> yet Naomi seems to expect NPR to act as Martha's personal insurer and care advocate. No. She expects a reputable news outlet to fact check their own story, especially since they covered most of the same information the Wired article did 4 years ago - which, naturally, mentioned Wu.

nend 5y ago
Fact check doesn't seem to the right phrase here. Naomi donated collars years ago. Each collar lasts "a few months". Martha has a "handful left". Martha hasn't been able to find additional collars. What facts did NPR get wrong in the article? There could be all sorts of reasons NPR didn't mention Naomi. How did Martha get the collars before Naomi's donation? How many years of collar donations/purchases is NPR obligated to mention in their article? Is there anyone else outraged they didn't get mentioned for providing collars years ago?

kevmo 5y ago

I like NPR as much as the next person, but it is often used as a propaganda tool, so I think it's valid to question the underlying reasons behind publishing stories and the slants they take. And yeah, it sounds like NPR should have picked up on the maker community here. Articles which precede this one by years bring up Naomi Wu. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community Given this, I think it's fair for Ms. Wu to have a hot take on this. Highly recommend reading Propaganda by Ed Bernays. I saw it recommended on HN years ago, so I bought and read it -- it really helped make me a smarter consumer of news.

ramadan_steve 5y ago

“anti-American/tech/white/male/journalism sentiment”. That’s a lot to take out of a story about a woman with the polio. I’m sad what’s happening to this site.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> It's a news story about a health patient, yet Naomi seems to expect NPR to act as Martha's personal insurer and care advocate. No I think Wu just expects [0] NPR not to ignore relevant facts to construct a misleading narrative. > Then Naomi would never have been given the chance to virtue signal for exposure. Naomi Wu is hardly lacking in exposure opportunities or the ability to exploit them, so even if the basic false dichotomy you propose wasn't false, it wouldn't really be lose-lose for NPR and Wu. (NPR and Martha maybe, since the exposure, even starting in the misleading form NPR presented it, does probably make it more likely that her issue gets resolved, but that's where the false dilemma comes into play, since the story didn't actually have to be misleading.) [0] in the normative, but emphatically not the predictive, sense of the word.

Pxtl 5y ago

Naomi Wu really hates western journalists and tech-bros, and justifiably so. She's been doxxed, accused of being fake (they think her partner does all the work and she's just his model/actress), etc. So yeah, she has a humongous chip on her shoulder, and maybe she gets carried away with that anger, but the chip on her shoulder comes from some legitimate grievances. Regardless, she has a lot of respect in the maker space because she's one of the few people who says "oh yeah, we can jump in and come up with help for this medical/prosthetic problem" and doesn't half-ass it. She's very specific about that - this is one of those cases where Minimum Viable Product is unacceptable, these items need to stand up to real life and 24/7 contact with human skin.