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You just detailed in your response why I am wrong and you are right and then you finish it off saying that if I do something similar but with opinions that diff

by marcf 15y ago

You just detailed in your response why I am wrong and you are right and then you finish it off saying that if I do something similar but with opinions that differ from yours, I will be breaking the rules. It is really hard to know how to respond to a comment like that except to back away slowly.

philwelch 15y ago
Hm, that's not what I meant, but I can see why you read it that way. I'm sorry for being unclear. Hopefully I can clarify what I meant a little. I don't think your claims about Israel are helpful for two reasons. One is because neither of your claims are statements of fact. Your first claim was: With regards to the occupation, its is related human rights issues, Israel is very unlike modern Europe. First, it's a matter of opinion--and rather heated debate--that Israel is responsible for any human rights issues related to the Palestinians. Some would say that Israel is only doing what they need to in order to defend themselves. Secondly, modern Europe has faced several human rights issues of its own. There was considerable violence against civilians during the dissolution of Yugoslavia, as well as human rights issues in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Granting for the sake of argument that Israel has human rights issues, they're not unlike Europe in that respect. Your second claim was: Israel viewed very negatively by the majority of its neighbors in the Arab world primarily because of its treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories This is speculative, and again there is another side to the story. Israel's Arab neighbors invaded or planned to invade Israel on two separate occasions before Israel even occupied the Palestinian territories. One of the reasons Israel even occupies those territories--which used to belong to Jordan and Egypt--is because Jordan and Egypt have refused to take the territories back. So, the first reason your claims aren't helpful is because both of your claims are highly controversial claims, far from the "true observations" you claim them to be. The second reason your claims aren't helpful is because a lot of people (yourself included, by all appearances) have very strong emotions about the situation in Israel and the occupied territories, and bringing up these controversies only conjures up all kinds of strong emotions and threatens to start irrelevant, tangential arguments. It's bad form to start arguments about Israel in unrelated threads for the same reason it's bad form to compare people to the Nazis. Or, as the guidelines say, Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them.
- marcf 15y ago
  Just to be clear, I'm purposely not responding to the content of your message.

by marcf 15y ago

philwelch 15y ago

Hm, that's not what I meant, but I can see why you read it that way. I'm sorry for being unclear. Hopefully I can clarify what I meant a little. I don't think your claims about Israel are helpful for two reasons. One is because neither of your claims are statements of fact. Your first claim was: With regards to the occupation, its is related human rights issues, Israel is very unlike modern Europe. First, it's a matter of opinion--and rather heated debate--that Israel is responsible for any human rights issues related to the Palestinians. Some would say that Israel is only doing what they need to in order to defend themselves. Secondly, modern Europe has faced several human rights issues of its own. There was considerable violence against civilians during the dissolution of Yugoslavia, as well as human rights issues in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Granting for the sake of argument that Israel has human rights issues, they're not unlike Europe in that respect. Your second claim was: Israel viewed very negatively by the majority of its neighbors in the Arab world primarily because of its treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories This is speculative, and again there is another side to the story. Israel's Arab neighbors invaded or planned to invade Israel on two separate occasions before Israel even occupied the Palestinian territories. One of the reasons Israel even occupies those territories--which used to belong to Jordan and Egypt--is because Jordan and Egypt have refused to take the territories back. So, the first reason your claims aren't helpful is because both of your claims are highly controversial claims, far from the "true observations" you claim them to be. The second reason your claims aren't helpful is because a lot of people (yourself included, by all appearances) have very strong emotions about the situation in Israel and the occupied territories, and bringing up these controversies only conjures up all kinds of strong emotions and threatens to start irrelevant, tangential arguments. It's bad form to start arguments about Israel in unrelated threads for the same reason it's bad form to compare people to the Nazis. Or, as the guidelines say, Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them.

marcf 15y ago
Just to be clear, I'm purposely not responding to the content of your message.