5 ms·

Heck, I can be technically-savvy and I prefer the "just works" experience of Windows. It rarely gets in the way. All major software and games work on Windows. I

by pradn 5y ago

Heck, I can be technically-savvy and I prefer the "just works" experience of Windows. It rarely gets in the way. All major software and games work on Windows. I don't even think about hardware compatibility. It just disappears, which is nice.

dehrmann 5y ago
> I don't even think about hardware compatibility This is somewhat dated, by I've shopped for hardware for Windows by chipset because some worked great out of the box, while some was finicky.
atoav 5y ago
On Linux you think about hardware compatibility when you buy the hardware, and then in many cases it just works. I use both systems so I have good comparison, and it is nowhere nearly as clear cut as "On Windows it just works" vs "On Linux you have to invoke unholy incantations to make it work". In some cases it is surprisingly the other way around, where Linux has some standard driver that just works and on Windows you have to install some damned bloatware just to get a fraction of the usability.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  This is my experience too. You have to care if hardware works, but when it works - and that is very frequent nowadays - it usually works much better than on windows. My best example case is a Asus C120 mini projector whose linux driver development I personally helped. When plugged, it shows itself as a mass storage device with a .exe file with the driver for windows 7. The driver doesn't work on recent windows versions, I don't know if you can download a new version. On linux, just plug it and it turns into a monitor. Nothing to do, no command to type. And the best part: I discovered it when I accidently plugged it on an ARM machine. It is very unlikely you could have such a good experience even with supported hardware on windows.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Razer Synapse comes to mind which requires a cloud account to make you use the hardware such as mouse. On Linux, a FOSS GUI takes care of it. Not only that, same for software used to update SSD firmware (bundling Chromium, and an old version, too!). On Linux, topgrade takes care of it for me.
- freedomben 5y ago
  Yes, this is the thing I wish more people knew. WIth Linux because most of the drivers are bundled in the kernel, there is nothing to install. It's as plug and play as possible. I haven't had to hunt for drivers in a long, long time on linux, whereas I have to do that frequently on windows (or wait for the windows driver to auto-install after hook-up, which is a also a PITA and makes me nervous every time)
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    The downside is that it means if there is a regression you have to use an old kernel version to fix it. And likewise if there is a new driver you need a newer kernel. Here's another thing you can't do with Linux's driver model: install a new video driver without rebooting.
    - Drdrdrq 5y ago
      When was the last time you could install anything on Windows without rebooting? I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        You can totally do this with video card drivers on Windows. I did it just a day or two ago. The ability to do so was a feature that came with the new WDDM (IIRC) in Vista.
- bjoli 5y ago
  I have screamed at scanners and printers not working in windows, just to plug them into linux and have them work without any interaction from my part. Unknown hardware is a mixed bag, but for printers i love the feeling that they will never stop working due to incompatible drivers. Linux gave my old lexmark printer a new life when the windows driver didn't work under windows 7. I used that printer today. It is over 20 years old, but hasn't worked in any windows version released after 2009. Edit: and this shit happens to people all the time. I have set up rpi printer servers for 4 people. Proprietary drivers stink.
  - slt2021 5y ago
    hm.. this is really strange, office equipment like printers, fax has always been developed for Windows first and foremost. Most of the times nowadays you don't really need a driver, if your printer has wifi/ethernet capability. Almost all printers with network capability work with generic drivers over TCP/IP, and windows is pretty good with identifying these. Now if you use USB, or god forbid LPT from the previous millennium - then yes, you need drivers that work with your combination of Windows version, x86/x64 version, etc, etc
    - potta_coffee 5y ago
      Developed first for Windows, but abandoned once they're no longer common.
      - slt2021 5y ago
        because they are no longer needed, all printers from this millennium work perfectly fine over wifi/ethernet with generic drivers
    - bjoli 5y ago
      Of course. They HAD drivers. For windows XP. Or maybe even current windows version, but the drivers are nowhere to be found today. I will never buy a network printer if USB printers are available. They suffer the usual IOT problem. In a couple of years security updates will stop showing up, and the bloody things usually try very hard to connect to the internet. Then I'd much rather roll my own with a raspberry pi running an LTS OS.
ageofwant 5y ago
No it doesn't, you have to install drivers, reboot 30 times and then you have not even begin to install software.
- RexM 5y ago
  Are we talking about Windows 98?
  - simion314 5y ago
    My experience with a Windows y and a Wifi USB antenna. 1 the hardware had a mini CD but that PC had now orking CD-Drive 2 Google for the name on the box, I found nothing . Many companies buy a chip, put their packaging on top and they sell a new product 3 Test it on Linux, it works great 4 run a Linux command to find the real chip used 5 Google for a driver for that chip 6 the official website of the chipmaker only deals with companies not random individual 7 there are many other websites where I can download a driver that might be compatible, but fuck me, can I trust sites like "driver.com", "software.com" , "xyz.com" this are random names I created , in the end I decided that I used 10 years ago softpedia.com and back then they had no malware so I ricked it 8 after I get the driver files I Google a tutorial on how to install .sys files (or maybe the extension was different, sorry) So not all hardware just works on Windows and some hardware just works on Linux. printers come with ton of bullshit stuff, in Linux was plug and play but I had to change a setting, but I don have the GUI for ink levels and the software that will diagnose the errors with a clear message instead of a LED. This is the fault of printer makers not Linux though...
    - anthk 5y ago
      SDI Tool Origin for Windows. Download the torrent and store that on a USB drive. That's the only sane way.
kaba0 5y ago
What about when windows decides to update the sound driver underneath you and you stop having sound until the next restart? Because it happened to me on windows, but never did anything like that happen on linux, where if it works once, it will continue to work.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Driver regressions are not unknown on Linux. Just because it never happened to you personally doesn't mean it never happens.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    But they are not arbitrary “runtime” regressions due to an auto-update in the background. Also, compared to things like NixOS’s boot into previous working config, windows is lightyears away.
    - dmz73 5y ago
      I am not so sure about that...maybe you don't run updates in the background but some of the distros do and there are random strange problems until you reboot. Windows is definitely worse at that but Linux is not 100% safe either. Also there is always a chance that your Linux update will cause things to stop working, it happened to me a lot more often than with Windows. If you have a tablet without kb attached Linux is a major PITA as the on screen kb and touchscreen work 90% of the time and then randomly stop. If you think that 90% is good, try it and see for yourself...spoiler: try to unlock your screen when kb is not working...or try to select a menu that keeps closing as soon as you touch it without selecting the item...or try to search for application in Gnome activities with touchscreen. It is so, so close but not quite there yet...and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. NixOS is another great idea with sub-par implementation. Two things that made me wipe it off the computer: 1) compile your own program and now try to run it on NixOS computer...good luck. 2) upstream program is marked as abandoned, I guess you don't need it until someone starts maintaining it again...W.T.F!!!!
wintermutestwin 5y ago
IME Windows update in 7 and 10 do not "just work" On both, there have been updates that spin for hours and fail. This has happened on multiple machines in multiple environments and MS "support" is a massive convoluted time suck. Maybe I'd get real support if I or the non-profits I support were Enterprise users. I've had update issues on Linux as well to the point where I simply reinstall on a major update. That's easy to do on Linux because it is free, but a pain on Windows because it is not. Every Windows box I support is eventually going to get replaced with a Mac because time is valuable.
- tompazourek 5y ago
  I think there were even some Windows Updates that bricked computers.
omoikane 5y ago
Maybe it just works fine in terms of hardware compatibility, but there are lots of background stuff like CompatTelRunner and WaasMedic that ruins interactivity by using up all disk IO at most inconvenient times. I haven't observed things like that on Linux. Perhaps the fundamental difference is that Windows is more compatible because it enables more things by default (that are difficult to turn off), whereas Linux is more efficient because it has less bloat by default (but is difficult to enable what you need).
squarefoot 5y ago
> I don't even think about hardware compatibility. It just disappears, which is nice. Only partially true. Linux supports almost all devices, but every now and then some companies refuse to release drivers, so the community resorts to reverse engineering of Windows drivers, and here's where the magic happens: the official Windows drivers are closed, while Linux ones are open, so the day that manufacturer decides to stop supporting Windows version X, or product X because they want to sell product Y, then it doesn't work anymore under Windows, but it will continue under Linux. As for now, there's a fairly big number of peripherals that aren't supported by Windows anymore but whose drivers are still actively developed and improved under Linux. Some hardware, given enough time, is being supported better under Linux than Windows; having Open Source device drivers can make a huge difference.
- watermelon0 5y ago
  Especially with newer hardware, Linux support lags behind Windows quite a bit or is missing some features. Regarding old devices, in many cases it just makes more sense to replace it with a newer device, than to spend time figuring out how to make old device work, unless this is a hobby to you (totally valid, but this only applies to a few people.)
stjohnswarts 5y ago
The only issue I really have with windows is that literally spy on every little things you do and report it back to microsoft and it's quite a chore to turn all that off, and basically impossible to get it 100% unless you never plan on updating windows after your changes.

by pradn 5y ago

dehrmann 5y ago

> I don't even think about hardware compatibility This is somewhat dated, by I've shopped for hardware for Windows by chipset because some worked great out of the box, while some was finicky.

atoav 5y ago

On Linux you think about hardware compatibility when you buy the hardware, and then in many cases it just works. I use both systems so I have good comparison, and it is nowhere nearly as clear cut as "On Windows it just works" vs "On Linux you have to invoke unholy incantations to make it work". In some cases it is surprisingly the other way around, where Linux has some standard driver that just works and on Windows you have to install some damned bloatware just to get a fraction of the usability.

marcodiego 5y ago
This is my experience too. You have to care if hardware works, but when it works - and that is very frequent nowadays - it usually works much better than on windows. My best example case is a Asus C120 mini projector whose linux driver development I personally helped. When plugged, it shows itself as a mass storage device with a .exe file with the driver for windows 7. The driver doesn't work on recent windows versions, I don't know if you can download a new version. On linux, just plug it and it turns into a monitor. Nothing to do, no command to type. And the best part: I discovered it when I accidently plugged it on an ARM machine. It is very unlikely you could have such a good experience even with supported hardware on windows.
Fnoord 5y ago
Razer Synapse comes to mind which requires a cloud account to make you use the hardware such as mouse. On Linux, a FOSS GUI takes care of it. Not only that, same for software used to update SSD firmware (bundling Chromium, and an old version, too!). On Linux, topgrade takes care of it for me.
freedomben 5y ago
Yes, this is the thing I wish more people knew. WIth Linux because most of the drivers are bundled in the kernel, there is nothing to install. It's as plug and play as possible. I haven't had to hunt for drivers in a long, long time on linux, whereas I have to do that frequently on windows (or wait for the windows driver to auto-install after hook-up, which is a also a PITA and makes me nervous every time)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  The downside is that it means if there is a regression you have to use an old kernel version to fix it. And likewise if there is a new driver you need a newer kernel. Here's another thing you can't do with Linux's driver model: install a new video driver without rebooting.
  - Drdrdrq 5y ago
    When was the last time you could install anything on Windows without rebooting? I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      You can totally do this with video card drivers on Windows. I did it just a day or two ago. The ability to do so was a feature that came with the new WDDM (IIRC) in Vista.
bjoli 5y ago
I have screamed at scanners and printers not working in windows, just to plug them into linux and have them work without any interaction from my part. Unknown hardware is a mixed bag, but for printers i love the feeling that they will never stop working due to incompatible drivers. Linux gave my old lexmark printer a new life when the windows driver didn't work under windows 7. I used that printer today. It is over 20 years old, but hasn't worked in any windows version released after 2009. Edit: and this shit happens to people all the time. I have set up rpi printer servers for 4 people. Proprietary drivers stink.
- slt2021 5y ago
  hm.. this is really strange, office equipment like printers, fax has always been developed for Windows first and foremost. Most of the times nowadays you don't really need a driver, if your printer has wifi/ethernet capability. Almost all printers with network capability work with generic drivers over TCP/IP, and windows is pretty good with identifying these. Now if you use USB, or god forbid LPT from the previous millennium - then yes, you need drivers that work with your combination of Windows version, x86/x64 version, etc, etc
  - potta_coffee 5y ago
    Developed first for Windows, but abandoned once they're no longer common.
    - slt2021 5y ago
      because they are no longer needed, all printers from this millennium work perfectly fine over wifi/ethernet with generic drivers
  - bjoli 5y ago
    Of course. They HAD drivers. For windows XP. Or maybe even current windows version, but the drivers are nowhere to be found today. I will never buy a network printer if USB printers are available. They suffer the usual IOT problem. In a couple of years security updates will stop showing up, and the bloody things usually try very hard to connect to the internet. Then I'd much rather roll my own with a raspberry pi running an LTS OS.

ageofwant 5y ago

No it doesn't, you have to install drivers, reboot 30 times and then you have not even begin to install software.

RexM 5y ago
Are we talking about Windows 98?
- simion314 5y ago
  My experience with a Windows y and a Wifi USB antenna. 1 the hardware had a mini CD but that PC had now orking CD-Drive 2 Google for the name on the box, I found nothing . Many companies buy a chip, put their packaging on top and they sell a new product 3 Test it on Linux, it works great 4 run a Linux command to find the real chip used 5 Google for a driver for that chip 6 the official website of the chipmaker only deals with companies not random individual 7 there are many other websites where I can download a driver that might be compatible, but fuck me, can I trust sites like "driver.com", "software.com" , "xyz.com" this are random names I created , in the end I decided that I used 10 years ago softpedia.com and back then they had no malware so I ricked it 8 after I get the driver files I Google a tutorial on how to install .sys files (or maybe the extension was different, sorry) So not all hardware just works on Windows and some hardware just works on Linux. printers come with ton of bullshit stuff, in Linux was plug and play but I had to change a setting, but I don have the GUI for ink levels and the software that will diagnose the errors with a clear message instead of a LED. This is the fault of printer makers not Linux though...
  - anthk 5y ago
    SDI Tool Origin for Windows. Download the torrent and store that on a USB drive. That's the only sane way.

kaba0 5y ago

What about when windows decides to update the sound driver underneath you and you stop having sound until the next restart? Because it happened to me on windows, but never did anything like that happen on linux, where if it works once, it will continue to work.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Driver regressions are not unknown on Linux. Just because it never happened to you personally doesn't mean it never happens.
- kaba0 5y ago
  But they are not arbitrary “runtime” regressions due to an auto-update in the background. Also, compared to things like NixOS’s boot into previous working config, windows is lightyears away.
  - dmz73 5y ago
    I am not so sure about that...maybe you don't run updates in the background but some of the distros do and there are random strange problems until you reboot. Windows is definitely worse at that but Linux is not 100% safe either. Also there is always a chance that your Linux update will cause things to stop working, it happened to me a lot more often than with Windows. If you have a tablet without kb attached Linux is a major PITA as the on screen kb and touchscreen work 90% of the time and then randomly stop. If you think that 90% is good, try it and see for yourself...spoiler: try to unlock your screen when kb is not working...or try to select a menu that keeps closing as soon as you touch it without selecting the item...or try to search for application in Gnome activities with touchscreen. It is so, so close but not quite there yet...and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. NixOS is another great idea with sub-par implementation. Two things that made me wipe it off the computer: 1) compile your own program and now try to run it on NixOS computer...good luck. 2) upstream program is marked as abandoned, I guess you don't need it until someone starts maintaining it again...W.T.F!!!!

wintermutestwin 5y ago

IME Windows update in 7 and 10 do not "just work" On both, there have been updates that spin for hours and fail. This has happened on multiple machines in multiple environments and MS "support" is a massive convoluted time suck. Maybe I'd get real support if I or the non-profits I support were Enterprise users. I've had update issues on Linux as well to the point where I simply reinstall on a major update. That's easy to do on Linux because it is free, but a pain on Windows because it is not. Every Windows box I support is eventually going to get replaced with a Mac because time is valuable.

tompazourek 5y ago
I think there were even some Windows Updates that bricked computers.

omoikane 5y ago

Maybe it just works fine in terms of hardware compatibility, but there are lots of background stuff like CompatTelRunner and WaasMedic that ruins interactivity by using up all disk IO at most inconvenient times. I haven't observed things like that on Linux. Perhaps the fundamental difference is that Windows is more compatible because it enables more things by default (that are difficult to turn off), whereas Linux is more efficient because it has less bloat by default (but is difficult to enable what you need).

squarefoot 5y ago

> I don't even think about hardware compatibility. It just disappears, which is nice. Only partially true. Linux supports almost all devices, but every now and then some companies refuse to release drivers, so the community resorts to reverse engineering of Windows drivers, and here's where the magic happens: the official Windows drivers are closed, while Linux ones are open, so the day that manufacturer decides to stop supporting Windows version X, or product X because they want to sell product Y, then it doesn't work anymore under Windows, but it will continue under Linux. As for now, there's a fairly big number of peripherals that aren't supported by Windows anymore but whose drivers are still actively developed and improved under Linux. Some hardware, given enough time, is being supported better under Linux than Windows; having Open Source device drivers can make a huge difference.

watermelon0 5y ago
Especially with newer hardware, Linux support lags behind Windows quite a bit or is missing some features. Regarding old devices, in many cases it just makes more sense to replace it with a newer device, than to spend time figuring out how to make old device work, unless this is a hobby to you (totally valid, but this only applies to a few people.)

stjohnswarts 5y ago

The only issue I really have with windows is that literally spy on every little things you do and report it back to microsoft and it's quite a chore to turn all that off, and basically impossible to get it 100% unless you never plan on updating windows after your changes.