8 ms·

The problem for me is that the movie wasn't leaning into ideas and concepts either. I see a lot of comments about political, religious and ecological topics in

The problem for me is that the movie wasn't leaning into ideas and concepts either. I see a lot of comments about political, religious and ecological topics in Dune but I saw almost nothing about that in the movie, other than very shallow comments/ideas. To me, Dune felt like a completely empty movie: scenes are beautiful, yes, but that was it.

vianneychevalie 5y ago
A friend saw it with me, no context at all for him, he was fascinated by the religious war undertones sprinkled through the movie
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > war Given some folks are complaining about the "white saviour" trope in Dune, it would be interesting to see Dune Messiah be made. It's not like Herbert wasn't aware of the idea, given what he knew about (e.g.) T. E. Lawrence ('of Arabia').
  - belval 5y ago
    Haven't seen the movie yet, but from reading the book I just don't see the white savior angle. Freemen were indoctrinated by the Bene Gesserit to believe in a prophesy and Jessica "lies" to them to make them believe Paul is the one. Freemen are being oppressed, but they aren't the weak ones in Dune not by a long shot since they even have enough wealth to outbid the empire on satellites in orbit around Arrakis. I want to see Dune God Emperor adapted now that would start getting to "seriously weird" territory.
    - nsonha 5y ago
      I think white savior just means guy came from outside who has amazing abilities and lead the native.
      - belval 5y ago
        Yes, but my point is that he's not a saviour of the Freemen at all. It's clear in the books that they are better armed, better adapted and their numbers is severely underestimated by the Harkonnen. At no point in the first book are the Freemen truly at risk of being decimated. This is a fine line to thread and I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment as to how the handled it, but while the Freemen don't have interplanetary domination in mind and Paul does lead them to Jihad, it's not like Avatar where the native are being exterminated and some random guy leads them to military success.
        nsonha 5y ago
        I dont think it matters whether they are oppressed or need a savior. The ridiculous thing about that narrative is that an alien with their own agenda (most likely not for the benefits of the native) is somehow given leadership
        Jtsummers 5y ago
        In the book, at least, he earns/steals that position (it's not given to him) by virtue of his mother's knowledge of their religious beliefs and his training from birth to be a leader. Which was only barely hinted at in this movie.
        philistine 5y ago
        I've always read Dune as a strong condemnation of the white saviour. Paul dooms the Fremen to a horrible purpose; forever to deliver a religious genocide in his name. Paul knows what he's doing is wrong, we the reader are told its wrong, and yet Paul does it anyway because his power of prescience shows him the alternative is worst for the universe. The sequels completely adhere to the idea that Paul is right, and turn the whole Dune universe into shlock, but the original novel posits the idea that Paul can't be sure it's the right thing to do. The thing is all of that is explained in much more detail in the second part of the book. You know, the part that's not a film yet.
        5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - ThomPete 5y ago
    The white savior tropes are mostly from activists. The actual book is a critique of the very idea of saviors in general.
    - nsonha 5y ago
      Was it the intention from the start or did Frank come up with it as he wrote more books?
    - klik99 5y ago
      "white saviour" is just the pithy modern name for what the book was critical of. It wasn't just in general against saviours, the oppression and race aspects were def part of the book. I'm no activist but I was disappointed (and surprised given the current climate) that those undertones weren't in the movie at all (arguably acting nice to the Freman for "desert power", but the movie was too invested in showing Leto as a really great guy with so little screen time that it couldn't afford to dwell on the complexity) - it comes more to the foreground after he's with the Freman so hopefully the second movie will explore that critique a bit more. None of this stopped me from really enjoying the movie - though I think highlighting the ambiguity could make it into a really great movie. The book does it by exploring how the systems work in the world which rarely works well in movies, so I'm not sure how part 2 could do it without it feeling "tacked on"
- gjulianm 5y ago
  I wouldn't call "sprinkled undertones" a few visions describing very explicitly a holy war, but to each their own.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
This is how I felt about his Blade Runner 2049 -- aesthetically stunning, but weak hollow story, like an intensively expensive well done fan-fic. As a big fan of the Dune series I'm a bit unsure if I really even want to see the movie. Arrival was excellent, but my experience with Blade Runner 2049 makes me unsure about Villeneuve's work.
- nsonha 5y ago
  I love that movie and I think in it, the story is just an excuse to show us the world and it's the world that's more interesting. A future where androids are organic, of course they have protein farms everywhere. They appear to have mastered sustainable (solar) engergy too. All of this and it's still a distopian future ravaged of inequality.
- pas 5y ago
  Wait and watch it with part 2. My biggest gripe with it is that it's just yet another Villeneuve movie. It's not different enough compared to BR2049. It seems as if 2049 was just a study for Dune. (Because probably it was.) And there's just not enough life in Dune compared to the richness of the books. (Nor in BR. Or in Arrival. ... Because Villeneuve emphasizes the anxiety of alienation a bit too much...?)
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  The emptiness in BR2049 was explained in-universe: people were leaving Earth for colonies and the planet was severely depopulated. It was OK for it to have this lifeless feeling. But "Dune" should be brimming with life, struggle and constant dangers, this melancholy and sterility do not fit it at all.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  I also found Blade Runner 2049 terrible. It felt totally empty. The original movie had an interesting story and built an interesting world. I don’t even know what 2049 was really about. I felt the same about the “Joker” movie. Good acting and production but ultimately not interesting .
- denton-scratch 5y ago
ThomPete 5y ago
The movie sets up a direct commentary on our middle east adventures.
- gjulianm 5y ago
  The only commentary that is set up is "colonization and oppression is bad", there's not much more there.
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
For all its faults, Lynch's Dune turned out to be an overall better movie! Who could have thought?
- pwned1 5y ago
  My god, how could you say that. I watched the Lynch version before watching the new version, just to be able to compare. The Lynch version was the worst movie I've ever seen.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    One must know how to watch it. Younger people can hardly see past the flashy pictures. Lynch's Paul was particularly brilliant, his figure had some mystic qualities around it, new movie has nothing like it.
    - pwned1 5y ago
      I'm not young :) I just couldn't get past the horribly stilted dialogue, the clowny costumes, and the completely terrible "inner monologue." Oh, and the last scene where the emperor himself jumps on the merry-go-round and is shooting things. wtf. The movie was so completely bad in every dimension. The only positive is that after watching it, I got a better idea of what was happening in the 2021 version.
      - euroderf 5y ago
        The merry-go-round thing was pretty cool tho, for a society without computers. I've yet to read an essay that examines it and tries to figure out its principle of operation.
      - denton-scratch 5y ago
        Totally agree. I think it was badly done. Big waste of lots of millions of dollars; and it blocked the stream for a new version, for two decades. Not criticising Lynch for having a go; props. I just don't think it worked out. That's how the cookie crumbles for most movies. Nice try.
denton-scratch 5y ago
Nobody seems to mention the mini-series - I thought it was the best Dune rendition to video/film. I hated the Lynch version. Sting totally turns me off. I read the book in the early seventies; never liked the prequels/sequels. I'm also not that keen on the mutant Paul/Sandworm god. That didn't work for me.

vianneychevalie 5y ago

A friend saw it with me, no context at all for him, he was fascinated by the religious war undertones sprinkled through the movie

throw0101a 5y ago
> war Given some folks are complaining about the "white saviour" trope in Dune, it would be interesting to see Dune Messiah be made. It's not like Herbert wasn't aware of the idea, given what he knew about (e.g.) T. E. Lawrence ('of Arabia').
- belval 5y ago
  Haven't seen the movie yet, but from reading the book I just don't see the white savior angle. Freemen were indoctrinated by the Bene Gesserit to believe in a prophesy and Jessica "lies" to them to make them believe Paul is the one. Freemen are being oppressed, but they aren't the weak ones in Dune not by a long shot since they even have enough wealth to outbid the empire on satellites in orbit around Arrakis. I want to see Dune God Emperor adapted now that would start getting to "seriously weird" territory.
  - nsonha 5y ago
    I think white savior just means guy came from outside who has amazing abilities and lead the native.
    - belval 5y ago
      Yes, but my point is that he's not a saviour of the Freemen at all. It's clear in the books that they are better armed, better adapted and their numbers is severely underestimated by the Harkonnen. At no point in the first book are the Freemen truly at risk of being decimated. This is a fine line to thread and I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment as to how the handled it, but while the Freemen don't have interplanetary domination in mind and Paul does lead them to Jihad, it's not like Avatar where the native are being exterminated and some random guy leads them to military success.
      - nsonha 5y ago
        I dont think it matters whether they are oppressed or need a savior. The ridiculous thing about that narrative is that an alien with their own agenda (most likely not for the benefits of the native) is somehow given leadership
        Jtsummers 5y ago
        In the book, at least, he earns/steals that position (it's not given to him) by virtue of his mother's knowledge of their religious beliefs and his training from birth to be a leader. Which was only barely hinted at in this movie.
        philistine 5y ago
        I've always read Dune as a strong condemnation of the white saviour. Paul dooms the Fremen to a horrible purpose; forever to deliver a religious genocide in his name. Paul knows what he's doing is wrong, we the reader are told its wrong, and yet Paul does it anyway because his power of prescience shows him the alternative is worst for the universe. The sequels completely adhere to the idea that Paul is right, and turn the whole Dune universe into shlock, but the original novel posits the idea that Paul can't be sure it's the right thing to do. The thing is all of that is explained in much more detail in the second part of the book. You know, the part that's not a film yet.
        5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ThomPete 5y ago
  The white savior tropes are mostly from activists. The actual book is a critique of the very idea of saviors in general.
  - nsonha 5y ago
    Was it the intention from the start or did Frank come up with it as he wrote more books?
  - klik99 5y ago
    "white saviour" is just the pithy modern name for what the book was critical of. It wasn't just in general against saviours, the oppression and race aspects were def part of the book. I'm no activist but I was disappointed (and surprised given the current climate) that those undertones weren't in the movie at all (arguably acting nice to the Freman for "desert power", but the movie was too invested in showing Leto as a really great guy with so little screen time that it couldn't afford to dwell on the complexity) - it comes more to the foreground after he's with the Freman so hopefully the second movie will explore that critique a bit more. None of this stopped me from really enjoying the movie - though I think highlighting the ambiguity could make it into a really great movie. The book does it by exploring how the systems work in the world which rarely works well in movies, so I'm not sure how part 2 could do it without it feeling "tacked on"
gjulianm 5y ago
I wouldn't call "sprinkled undertones" a few visions describing very explicitly a holy war, but to each their own.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

This is how I felt about his Blade Runner 2049 -- aesthetically stunning, but weak hollow story, like an intensively expensive well done fan-fic. As a big fan of the Dune series I'm a bit unsure if I really even want to see the movie. Arrival was excellent, but my experience with Blade Runner 2049 makes me unsure about Villeneuve's work.

nsonha 5y ago
I love that movie and I think in it, the story is just an excuse to show us the world and it's the world that's more interesting. A future where androids are organic, of course they have protein farms everywhere. They appear to have mastered sustainable (solar) engergy too. All of this and it's still a distopian future ravaged of inequality.
pas 5y ago
Wait and watch it with part 2. My biggest gripe with it is that it's just yet another Villeneuve movie. It's not different enough compared to BR2049. It seems as if 2049 was just a study for Dune. (Because probably it was.) And there's just not enough life in Dune compared to the richness of the books. (Nor in BR. Or in Arrival. ... Because Villeneuve emphasizes the anxiety of alienation a bit too much...?)
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
The emptiness in BR2049 was explained in-universe: people were leaving Earth for colonies and the planet was severely depopulated. It was OK for it to have this lifeless feeling. But "Dune" should be brimming with life, struggle and constant dangers, this melancholy and sterility do not fit it at all.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
I also found Blade Runner 2049 terrible. It felt totally empty. The original movie had an interesting story and built an interesting world. I don’t even know what 2049 was really about. I felt the same about the “Joker” movie. Good acting and production but ultimately not interesting .
denton-scratch 5y ago

ThomPete 5y ago

The movie sets up a direct commentary on our middle east adventures.

gjulianm 5y ago
The only commentary that is set up is "colonization and oppression is bad", there's not much more there.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

For all its faults, Lynch's Dune turned out to be an overall better movie! Who could have thought?

pwned1 5y ago
My god, how could you say that. I watched the Lynch version before watching the new version, just to be able to compare. The Lynch version was the worst movie I've ever seen.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  One must know how to watch it. Younger people can hardly see past the flashy pictures. Lynch's Paul was particularly brilliant, his figure had some mystic qualities around it, new movie has nothing like it.
  - pwned1 5y ago
    I'm not young :) I just couldn't get past the horribly stilted dialogue, the clowny costumes, and the completely terrible "inner monologue." Oh, and the last scene where the emperor himself jumps on the merry-go-round and is shooting things. wtf. The movie was so completely bad in every dimension. The only positive is that after watching it, I got a better idea of what was happening in the 2021 version.
    - euroderf 5y ago
      The merry-go-round thing was pretty cool tho, for a society without computers. I've yet to read an essay that examines it and tries to figure out its principle of operation.
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      Totally agree. I think it was badly done. Big waste of lots of millions of dollars; and it blocked the stream for a new version, for two decades. Not criticising Lynch for having a go; props. I just don't think it worked out. That's how the cookie crumbles for most movies. Nice try.

denton-scratch 5y ago

Nobody seems to mention the mini-series - I thought it was the best Dune rendition to video/film. I hated the Lynch version. Sting totally turns me off. I read the book in the early seventies; never liked the prequels/sequels. I'm also not that keen on the mutant Paul/Sandworm god. That didn't work for me.