4 ms·

I tried the book (not a native English speaker) and couldn't go further than first 2 pages. It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) On t

by dgan 5y ago

I tried the book (not a native English speaker) and couldn't go further than first 2 pages. It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) On the other side of spectrum I remember reading reading Zelazny Chronicles of Amber, as a kid (translated to my language) and absolutely loved it

guscost 5y ago
You probably want to start with the glossary and historical notes at the back. Otherwise, yeah, the first time through will not make much sense.
mmcdermott 5y ago
I was discussing this recently and I compared it to the Lord of the Rings. Both authors are writing novels in complex constructed worlds. Where they strongly differ is how they handle this. Tolkien mixes in a lot of explanation. The history of the Ring is told twice, once in Hobbiton and once in Rivendell and both times we receive the background information as explained to an audience surrogate character (Frodo). Herbert goes the opposite way. He simply starts using terminology and referencing entities and histories as though you already know them. You pick it up by osmosis (and newer editions of the book, like the one I read, have a large glossary in the back to simplify matters), but never really get a thorough explanation of the world we are in. I think this is one of the reasons that the Dune Encyclopedia was so popular early on. It's telling that Tolkien never really worked on the Middle Earth guidebooks, but Herbert did. The Chronicles of Amber flat-out rocked.
criddell 5y ago
I've tried to read the book a few times but have never succeeded. Last weekend I watched the movie at home and absolutely loved it. I only wish part two was available. For me, this movie is one of the few book-based movies that is significantly better than the book.
the_af 5y ago
Note most of the "alien" words in Dune are not random, but alternative spellings of words from Arabic, French, etc.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  So the trick is to first learn all the world's languages, and then go read it?
  - the_af 5y ago
    No, of course. Do you think that's what I'm saying? Note there are very few languages used as inspiration in Dune. There's also a glossary. There's also the fact many words, like Jihad, have entered the English-speaking world knowledge (note: when I read the word "Jihad" in Dune, in my teenage years, I thought it was a made up scifi word! And so with many other Arabic words in the text; I also failed to make the connection of "Zensunni" with "Zen" and "Sunni", etc. I still enjoyed the novel immensely). As a general rule, do foreign words tend to baffle you in English prose? They don't confuse me in either Spanish literature -- my native tongue -- nor English, my second language. Having an at least passing knowledge of other languages and cultures will make reading any given novel, in any given language, more enjoyable. You don't have to know the whole languages or cultures of the world.
    - moffkalast 5y ago
      I was mostly kidding, I also speak English as a second language. It's just the mild gripe that using foreign words as made up words that aren't made up words is a workaround hack for this issue https://xkcd.com/483 https://xkcd.com/483 Like the characters in a fictional sci-fi story 20k years in the future obviously aren't speaking the language you're reading the story in. It just feels like bad translation.
      - the_af 5y ago
        Ah, good point. Though I don't think there's an overuse of made up words, and most are actual non-English words. I like that in the (otherwise mediocre) "Nightfall" novel by Asimov and Silverberg, the preface states "we are going to use English words because alien words are stupid. Please understand the characters are aliens and are not actually speaking in English. If it makes you happy, substitute "mouth" for "lrrrvkr" and "eyelids" for "ktkskssrrsch") :P The characters of the Dune universe do come from Earth though, and it's clear Herbert was fascinated by the Middle East to the point Arrakis is The Middle East in Space.
unmole 5y ago
> It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) Do you mean Kwisatz Haderach and gom jabbar? I mean the very first page has: Paul lay awake wondering: What’s a gom jabbar? And on the next page: He mouthed her strange words: Gom jabbar … Kwisatz Haderach. So, it's not like the book expects you to know what they mean. The protagonist himself doesn't know what they mean! I totally appreciate differences in taste but giving up after two pages when the prose itself acknowledges that these are storage words seems a bit odd.

by dgan 5y ago

guscost 5y ago

You probably want to start with the glossary and historical notes at the back. Otherwise, yeah, the first time through will not make much sense.

mmcdermott 5y ago

I was discussing this recently and I compared it to the Lord of the Rings. Both authors are writing novels in complex constructed worlds. Where they strongly differ is how they handle this. Tolkien mixes in a lot of explanation. The history of the Ring is told twice, once in Hobbiton and once in Rivendell and both times we receive the background information as explained to an audience surrogate character (Frodo). Herbert goes the opposite way. He simply starts using terminology and referencing entities and histories as though you already know them. You pick it up by osmosis (and newer editions of the book, like the one I read, have a large glossary in the back to simplify matters), but never really get a thorough explanation of the world we are in. I think this is one of the reasons that the Dune Encyclopedia was so popular early on. It's telling that Tolkien never really worked on the Middle Earth guidebooks, but Herbert did. The Chronicles of Amber flat-out rocked.

criddell 5y ago

I've tried to read the book a few times but have never succeeded. Last weekend I watched the movie at home and absolutely loved it. I only wish part two was available. For me, this movie is one of the few book-based movies that is significantly better than the book.

the_af 5y ago

Note most of the "alien" words in Dune are not random, but alternative spellings of words from Arabic, French, etc.

moffkalast 5y ago
So the trick is to first learn all the world's languages, and then go read it?
- the_af 5y ago
  No, of course. Do you think that's what I'm saying? Note there are very few languages used as inspiration in Dune. There's also a glossary. There's also the fact many words, like Jihad, have entered the English-speaking world knowledge (note: when I read the word "Jihad" in Dune, in my teenage years, I thought it was a made up scifi word! And so with many other Arabic words in the text; I also failed to make the connection of "Zensunni" with "Zen" and "Sunni", etc. I still enjoyed the novel immensely). As a general rule, do foreign words tend to baffle you in English prose? They don't confuse me in either Spanish literature -- my native tongue -- nor English, my second language. Having an at least passing knowledge of other languages and cultures will make reading any given novel, in any given language, more enjoyable. You don't have to know the whole languages or cultures of the world.
  - moffkalast 5y ago
    I was mostly kidding, I also speak English as a second language. It's just the mild gripe that using foreign words as made up words that aren't made up words is a workaround hack for this issue https://xkcd.com/483 https://xkcd.com/483 Like the characters in a fictional sci-fi story 20k years in the future obviously aren't speaking the language you're reading the story in. It just feels like bad translation.
    - the_af 5y ago
      Ah, good point. Though I don't think there's an overuse of made up words, and most are actual non-English words. I like that in the (otherwise mediocre) "Nightfall" novel by Asimov and Silverberg, the preface states "we are going to use English words because alien words are stupid. Please understand the characters are aliens and are not actually speaking in English. If it makes you happy, substitute "mouth" for "lrrrvkr" and "eyelids" for "ktkskssrrsch") :P The characters of the Dune universe do come from Earth though, and it's clear Herbert was fascinated by the Middle East to the point Arrakis is The Middle East in Space.

unmole 5y ago

> It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) Do you mean Kwisatz Haderach and gom jabbar? I mean the very first page has: Paul lay awake wondering: What’s a gom jabbar? And on the next page: He mouthed her strange words: Gom jabbar … Kwisatz Haderach. So, it's not like the book expects you to know what they mean. The protagonist himself doesn't know what they mean! I totally appreciate differences in taste but giving up after two pages when the prose itself acknowledges that these are storage words seems a bit odd.