4 ms·

I wonder if the reason HATEOAS is not taken more seriously / developed further is simply the economic / cultural context of the dominant style of software devel

I wonder if the reason HATEOAS is not taken more seriously / developed further is simply the economic / cultural context of the dominant style of software development during the past decade (centralization, winner-takes-all, command-and-control etc) rather than something intrinsic about the architecture A decentralized web (as originally imagined) involves countless diverse servers and clients exchanging data of constantly evolving (as in: growing in complexity) semantic structures. What is needed is not inventing a "language to rule all languages" but inventing the dictionary. If there is an alternative pattern that can somehow enable a truly functional decentralized web please step forward.

regularfry 5y ago
XHTML. Seriously. If what you want looks like an extensible document type with custom embedded data that you want to reliably parse out, that's what it's there for.
- streamofdigits 5y ago
  the "X"(ML/HMTL/...) universe seems to have been deprecated but lots of boring people out there that need to manage real life complexity seem to wonder the wisdom of the "in crowd" progress has sometimes a strange "helix" like structure: revisiting and re-using valuable old patterns after fixing their pain points
DeathArrow 5y ago
I don't know about the others but I don't use HATEOAS because 1. is simpler not to and 2. I don't have a need for it
jrochkind1 5y ago
I think you're right, but I also think the cause-and-effect is pretty bilateral. Designing implementing and maintaining that kind of decentralized HATEOS/"semantic web" (there's a simlarity, right?) infrastructure, in a way that actually works well... is very expensive. More expensive than it's (non-"political"[1]) benefits. People do things where the immediate benefit is worth the immediate cost. That is, there is something intrinsic about the architecture that is both suitable to decentralization, and more complicated/expensive for not enough obvious benefit to those who pay the expense. And these are related. [1] "political" in the sense of "where the power lies". And they are real benefits there to decentralized infrastructure (at least for those who aren't going to be in the center). But the way our economy and society works, they don't produce funding to create.
- streamofdigits 5y ago
  I agree, thats why the role of the public sector is important to overcome the lack of "immediate" benefit, or more precisely, the lack of immediate pecuniary benefit. Quote: The Web was originally conceived and developed to meet the demand for automated information-sharing between scientists in universities and institutes around the world.

regularfry 5y ago

XHTML. Seriously. If what you want looks like an extensible document type with custom embedded data that you want to reliably parse out, that's what it's there for.

streamofdigits 5y ago
the "X"(ML/HMTL/...) universe seems to have been deprecated but lots of boring people out there that need to manage real life complexity seem to wonder the wisdom of the "in crowd" progress has sometimes a strange "helix" like structure: revisiting and re-using valuable old patterns after fixing their pain points

DeathArrow 5y ago

I don't know about the others but I don't use HATEOAS because 1. is simpler not to and 2. I don't have a need for it

jrochkind1 5y ago

I think you're right, but I also think the cause-and-effect is pretty bilateral. Designing implementing and maintaining that kind of decentralized HATEOS/"semantic web" (there's a simlarity, right?) infrastructure, in a way that actually works well... is very expensive. More expensive than it's (non-"political"[1]) benefits. People do things where the immediate benefit is worth the immediate cost. That is, there is something intrinsic about the architecture that is both suitable to decentralization, and more complicated/expensive for not enough obvious benefit to those who pay the expense. And these are related. [1] "political" in the sense of "where the power lies". And they are real benefits there to decentralized infrastructure (at least for those who aren't going to be in the center). But the way our economy and society works, they don't produce funding to create.

streamofdigits 5y ago
I agree, thats why the role of the public sector is important to overcome the lack of "immediate" benefit, or more precisely, the lack of immediate pecuniary benefit. Quote: The Web was originally conceived and developed to meet the demand for automated information-sharing between scientists in universities and institutes around the world.