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Not really sure, I also personally some people that became disillusioned after being very tolerant. (I also know people that integrate very well in that society

Not really sure, I also personally some people that became disillusioned after being very tolerant. (I also know people that integrate very well in that society and like what's going on more than their experience in western societies.) When I clicked the above youtube link, I saw the similarities to reviewing electronics and advancements with smiling faces that serpentza used to have, before doing a total 180.

neom 5y ago
Yeah I've also seen that a few times with people I know on a smaller scale. For now I just use the lens of: We know when people are in china to be successful publishing about china they need to apply a rose coloured filter. And. It's difficult/probably not a good idea to apply non-china-thinking to china. The scale, culture and mindset is just so different, taking a Western view of almost any aspect of china is always going to be super hard and potentially a fools errand. I think that's why it often ends up feeling so extreme, because the content creator has to navigate these two things and I don't see it being anything other than very jarring to the content consumer. (I try to keep china in perspective for myself. Building a startup to over 200 was super super hard. Emerging a billion people.. hmf. I don't always agree with China, but I do believe emerging a billion people is hard)
- vmception 5y ago
  That's pretty much my conclusion as well. I think I understand China pretty well, I don't think I could even explain it to help westerners without losing my standing in China. So there is always going to be this disconnect, and of course even that would embolden westerners to stick with their current conclusion about the place. There is just a lot of unsaid things that are still important to understand, and I think all societies have various topics that you will never get a satisfactorily honest opinion about from their people. So China just isn't different enough for me to only focus on things I don't like about China, thats my real conclusion: its just not different enough to treat them differently. I would say skimming major events in the last 200 years of Chinese history, as well as their current constitution will help make China make a lot of sense.
  - neom 5y ago
    I think what you said is very interesting. I read between some of the lines and understand you have a genuine perspective (that we could probably spend hours and hours over drinks discussing) but yeah, in all my "china thought swirling" I do about the whole emerging thing, I come to the same place, I go back and forth on your conclusion. Right now I'm on the other side, but last year I wasn't, and I tend to oscillate every year or so. The problem is by the time the history book is written about the lessons learned, translated to english, and makes it's way to a doc someone in Canada could watch... I'll be long gone, so I doubt I'll ever really know.

neom 5y ago

Yeah I've also seen that a few times with people I know on a smaller scale. For now I just use the lens of: We know when people are in china to be successful publishing about china they need to apply a rose coloured filter. And. It's difficult/probably not a good idea to apply non-china-thinking to china. The scale, culture and mindset is just so different, taking a Western view of almost any aspect of china is always going to be super hard and potentially a fools errand. I think that's why it often ends up feeling so extreme, because the content creator has to navigate these two things and I don't see it being anything other than very jarring to the content consumer. (I try to keep china in perspective for myself. Building a startup to over 200 was super super hard. Emerging a billion people.. hmf. I don't always agree with China, but I do believe emerging a billion people is hard)

vmception 5y ago
That's pretty much my conclusion as well. I think I understand China pretty well, I don't think I could even explain it to help westerners without losing my standing in China. So there is always going to be this disconnect, and of course even that would embolden westerners to stick with their current conclusion about the place. There is just a lot of unsaid things that are still important to understand, and I think all societies have various topics that you will never get a satisfactorily honest opinion about from their people. So China just isn't different enough for me to only focus on things I don't like about China, thats my real conclusion: its just not different enough to treat them differently. I would say skimming major events in the last 200 years of Chinese history, as well as their current constitution will help make China make a lot of sense.
- neom 5y ago
  I think what you said is very interesting. I read between some of the lines and understand you have a genuine perspective (that we could probably spend hours and hours over drinks discussing) but yeah, in all my "china thought swirling" I do about the whole emerging thing, I come to the same place, I go back and forth on your conclusion. Right now I'm on the other side, but last year I wasn't, and I tend to oscillate every year or so. The problem is by the time the history book is written about the lessons learned, translated to english, and makes it's way to a doc someone in Canada could watch... I'll be long gone, so I doubt I'll ever really know.