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Real programmers understand the value of abstraction. End of discussion.

• arakyd 18y ago
  Frameworks are not equivalent to abstractions. Frameworks are prepackaged abstractions - that is, a proper subset of all abstractions. If you can make better abstractions than those used by a framework, you might advocate not using that framework because you understand the value of (good) abstraction.
• fauigerzigerk 18y ago
  And the "realest" programmers even understand that there are different kinds of abstractions and that abstraction is both a noun and a verb for good reason. We shouldn't just think about what a framework provides today, but also how it structures the way we evolve our applications, i.e our own abstraction process.