6 ms·

It's not about public health. It's about control.

by throwawayfear 5y ago

barbazoo 5y ago
In what way?
- choward 5y ago
  You must live somewhere without mandates.
  - version_five 5y ago
    To be fair, I think it's less about control than about naked populism- vaccine mandates, and many other covid measures are wildly popular. It's basically mob rule. Liberal democracy is supposed to have built in protections for this, but when they get ignored, all bets are off. Right wing populists ignoring liberal democratic norms was the big fear a few years ago, and now it has swung far to the left. There is some element of control as you say, but I think it's more in the "show you're a member of our religion" sense than in the government or corporate control sense. This is a war people are waging on themselves.
    - throwawayfear 5y ago
      Who is in charge of our governments and corporations? If it's comprised of the people attempting to make it about their religious zeal on this subject, then I consider that no different than it being a government or corporation ploy for more power. Because at the end of the day, it's the biggest stakeholders in a corporation that will love the power to force people out of having bread if they don't comply with increasingly invasive protocols.
    - beerandt 5y ago
      If that's the case, it's even worse than a power grab. What's the quote about abusive power done on behalf of the abused, and not ever having a reason to stop?
      - version_five 5y ago
        > Imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever? It's way worse than a power grab. People always are more comfortable believing there is some "other" that is responsible for evil, and all we have to do is defeat them. There isn't, it's us
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  Consider Australia, specifically Victoria, where Daniel Andrews and his team have been lying out of their teeth about "reopening" and "lifting restrictions" even though despite hitting vaccination numbers in excess of what Fauci and other scientists and administrative professionals were were saying would be required. They've been saying 60-70 percent to achieve herd immunity and cause things to be endemic, yet Daniel Andrews of Victoria wants a "vaccinated economy" through 2023, with unvaccinated people completely barred from normal life. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/australia-covid-update-as-most-victoria-restrictions-lift-next-month-vaccinated-economy-to-stay-for-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/austr... "Unvaccinated Victorians to be banned from venues including bookshops, pubs and football matches until at least 2023, while similar restrictions in NSW lift in December" This excellent piece from The Atlantic is worth the read: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... This is about power, not public health. There's a reason they never include antibodies in their discussions, even though antibodies are shown to be as effective as Pfizer against reinfection or breakthrough cases. Sources: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... And those antibodies are slated to last decades: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" And in America at least, where some politicians and administrative officials would love to exercise power like Daniel Andrews and his posse are keen on doing, we know now that the vast majority of the country has antibodies from one source or another, of high quality against known strains. Over 80% as of May! https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." This is a much higher number for considering the pandemic "over" or endemic than what Fauci was saying we needed over the last year. Why the failure to make the admission about antibodies? Because it's about power. And you can look through my comment history to see even more examples of the tyrannical things that have been happening down under. Here are examples for your convenience: They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... They're arresting people for making Facebook posts against lockdowns. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824 Australia presumes to say how many people can visit your home. Source: https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-australia-how-will-they-work-and-what-will-you-need-them-for-167531 https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.” They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097
standardUser 5y ago
To what specific end and what is your evidence?
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  I do not know the specific end. History does not give me comfort on this subject though. Someone else asked me the same question you did on my comment though, and I responded with links, please take a look at that response since it's a sizable one with plenty of sourced claims in it. If you will only read it if I share the same information in a reply here as well, do let me know and I'm happy to do so! I just want to redundant information wherever possible in a comment tree.
  - standardUser 5y ago
    And if the vaccine requirements end in 6 months, like the mask mandates and most other measures did where I live several months ago, will you take that as sufficient evidence that there is not a massive conspiracy? Because I recall many voices saying that masking would never end, lockdowns would go on forever, and other very dramatic things, all as supposed proof that some shadowy figures were trying to "control" us. Yet, as conditions changed, those policies changed, and control was demonstrable and undeniably loosened (to the dismay of those shadowy figures, I'm sure).
    - throwawayfear 5y ago
      I've heard "two more weeks" and "a few more months" multiple times now. And in fact, in the case of the extremely strict lockdown processes in Australia, they've extended them before. If you peg it to # of cases rather than how many people have antibodies (FROM ANY SOURCE, given the links I provided as evidence on the efficacy of antibodies from past infection)...you can arbitrarily keep delaying the lockdowns and finding new justifications for more and more invasive processes. No, no more six months. Based on what the scientists were saying for the entire last year about antibodies for 60 to 70 percent of the population resulting in endemic covid, Victoria and the broader USA have exceeded that. I haven't looked into western European countries yet to see what their antibody counts are estimated to be, but if they have similar antibody levels (from vaccination OR past infection), then these mandates should be dismissed immediately.

It's not about public health. It's about control.

barbazoo 5y ago

In what way?

choward 5y ago
You must live somewhere without mandates.
- version_five 5y ago
  To be fair, I think it's less about control than about naked populism- vaccine mandates, and many other covid measures are wildly popular. It's basically mob rule. Liberal democracy is supposed to have built in protections for this, but when they get ignored, all bets are off. Right wing populists ignoring liberal democratic norms was the big fear a few years ago, and now it has swung far to the left. There is some element of control as you say, but I think it's more in the "show you're a member of our religion" sense than in the government or corporate control sense. This is a war people are waging on themselves.
  - throwawayfear 5y ago
    Who is in charge of our governments and corporations? If it's comprised of the people attempting to make it about their religious zeal on this subject, then I consider that no different than it being a government or corporation ploy for more power. Because at the end of the day, it's the biggest stakeholders in a corporation that will love the power to force people out of having bread if they don't comply with increasingly invasive protocols.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    If that's the case, it's even worse than a power grab. What's the quote about abusive power done on behalf of the abused, and not ever having a reason to stop?
    - version_five 5y ago
      > Imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever? It's way worse than a power grab. People always are more comfortable believing there is some "other" that is responsible for evil, and all we have to do is defeat them. There isn't, it's us
throwawayfear 5y ago
Consider Australia, specifically Victoria, where Daniel Andrews and his team have been lying out of their teeth about "reopening" and "lifting restrictions" even though despite hitting vaccination numbers in excess of what Fauci and other scientists and administrative professionals were were saying would be required. They've been saying 60-70 percent to achieve herd immunity and cause things to be endemic, yet Daniel Andrews of Victoria wants a "vaccinated economy" through 2023, with unvaccinated people completely barred from normal life. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/australia-covid-update-as-most-victoria-restrictions-lift-next-month-vaccinated-economy-to-stay-for-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/austr... "Unvaccinated Victorians to be banned from venues including bookshops, pubs and football matches until at least 2023, while similar restrictions in NSW lift in December" This excellent piece from The Atlantic is worth the read: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... This is about power, not public health. There's a reason they never include antibodies in their discussions, even though antibodies are shown to be as effective as Pfizer against reinfection or breakthrough cases. Sources: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... And those antibodies are slated to last decades: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" And in America at least, where some politicians and administrative officials would love to exercise power like Daniel Andrews and his posse are keen on doing, we know now that the vast majority of the country has antibodies from one source or another, of high quality against known strains. Over 80% as of May! https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." This is a much higher number for considering the pandemic "over" or endemic than what Fauci was saying we needed over the last year. Why the failure to make the admission about antibodies? Because it's about power. And you can look through my comment history to see even more examples of the tyrannical things that have been happening down under. Here are examples for your convenience: They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... They're arresting people for making Facebook posts against lockdowns. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54007824 Australia presumes to say how many people can visit your home. Source: https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-australia-how-will-they-work-and-what-will-you-need-them-for-167531 https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.” They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097

standardUser 5y ago

To what specific end and what is your evidence?

throwawayfear 5y ago
I do not know the specific end. History does not give me comfort on this subject though. Someone else asked me the same question you did on my comment though, and I responded with links, please take a look at that response since it's a sizable one with plenty of sourced claims in it. If you will only read it if I share the same information in a reply here as well, do let me know and I'm happy to do so! I just want to redundant information wherever possible in a comment tree.
- standardUser 5y ago
  And if the vaccine requirements end in 6 months, like the mask mandates and most other measures did where I live several months ago, will you take that as sufficient evidence that there is not a massive conspiracy? Because I recall many voices saying that masking would never end, lockdowns would go on forever, and other very dramatic things, all as supposed proof that some shadowy figures were trying to "control" us. Yet, as conditions changed, those policies changed, and control was demonstrable and undeniably loosened (to the dismay of those shadowy figures, I'm sure).
  - throwawayfear 5y ago
    I've heard "two more weeks" and "a few more months" multiple times now. And in fact, in the case of the extremely strict lockdown processes in Australia, they've extended them before. If you peg it to # of cases rather than how many people have antibodies (FROM ANY SOURCE, given the links I provided as evidence on the efficacy of antibodies from past infection)...you can arbitrarily keep delaying the lockdowns and finding new justifications for more and more invasive processes. No, no more six months. Based on what the scientists were saying for the entire last year about antibodies for 60 to 70 percent of the population resulting in endemic covid, Victoria and the broader USA have exceeded that. I haven't looked into western European countries yet to see what their antibody counts are estimated to be, but if they have similar antibody levels (from vaccination OR past infection), then these mandates should be dismissed immediately.