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> Would "the experts" please demonstrate that vaccines against variants are effective There's plenty of evidence that current vaccines work against variants:

> Would "the experts" please demonstrate that vaccines against variants are effective There's plenty of evidence that current vaccines work against variants: - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 - https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)01057-6#%20 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)01057-6#%20 > given that original antigenic sin is a long known and well documented phenomenon? This could apply both to vaccines and natural infections. Not sure what you are trying to say?

MuffinFlavored 5y ago
> There's plenty of evidence that current vaccines work against variants: Is there any reason to be afraid of getting vaccinated?
- zzutz 5y ago
  besides the fact that plenty of European countries have banned the use of certain vaccines because of heart issues? besides the fact that Fauci is responsible for funding bio-terrorism in Wuhan? No not really.
- didibus 5y ago
  > Is there any reason to be afraid of getting vaccinated? There's plenty of reasons, do you mean to also ask how likely other people on the internet believe each one to be? For example, if you ask me, this is my personal assessment: Reason 1 - Vaccines could also contain microchips or other device for tracking, brainwashing and remote manipulating my body and mind by whoever mastermind is in charge of what goes in them. I think that's very unlikely, I'd give it a 0.00000001% probability. I just dont know of any possibility for such advanced technology. And I can think of many different means that you can be more cost effectively tracked, manipulated or brain washed. I can also think of other ways they could have injected you with such things. Reason 2 - The vaccines will result in worst long terms negative effects on your health than getting Covid. I think this is a little more likely, but given all prior vaccines have shown to be quite safe, and even if they could be responsible for some long term effects, even some we haven't linked back to them yet, seeing as life expectancy and quality of life has grown year over year since the introduction of vaccines, it seems the equation would still play in their favor. There are also more and more literature linking prior viruses as a possible cause of long term negative effects like dimentia, various auto-immune diseases, etc. So it would seem Covid is more likely to introduce long term negative effects. So I'd give it a 1% chance. Reason 3 - The vaccines will result in worst short term effects on your health then getting Covid. I think this one has been shown that most of the time, Covid is more likely to kill you or make you really sick as compared to vaccines. I'd give this one a 0.0001% chance. Reason 4 - Vaccines can stop your pregnancy or your period and make you stink I have seen zero cases of this, and everyone who's had a vaccine to my nose do not smell, and still have period and can get pregnant. I'd give this one a 0.000000000000000001% chance. There might be more reasons, but those are the ones I've heard most often, and this is only my personal risk assessment.
  - quesera 5y ago
    The non-crazy, non-simple faction of vaccine resistance argues about the likelihood of ADE, which is where the vaccine primes the immune system to have a larger reaction against some types of future infection. The typical dwell time before effect is something like 12-18 months. Argument goes along the lines that "all" previous coronovirus vaccines were found to have ADE effects. It took a long time for them to show up, but the effect was large and the trials were abandoned. So apparently we're still all going to die. Spring/Summer 2022 (northern hemisphere time) will be the cataclysm. I'm inadequately gnorant to evaluate the argument on merits, but I find it interesting because it fits the classic definition of "bullshit".
    - sdenton4 5y ago
      I heard we would all die after six months, but strangely haven't heard that number since August. Not just bullshit, but millennialist bullshit!
    - belltaco 5y ago
      >The non-crazy, non-simple faction of vaccine resistance argues about the likelihood of ADE, which is where the vaccine primes the immune system to have a larger reaction against some types of future infection. The typical dwell time before effect is something like 12-18 months. Didn't tens of thousands of trial participants get covid vaccines back during July to September last year? They're still monitored I think. If what you said is true then they should be dropping like flies which they are not.
      - quesera 5y ago
        Agreed. This is not my argument!
        greg5green 5y ago
        Then why spread this terrible argument?
angelzen 5y ago
That is not the question I asked. Furthermore the degree of which the current vaccines work against variants is dependent of the variant itself, please consult the OA. (Also dependent on time, but that's a separate conversation .) I am asking specifically if there is any hard evidence of vaccine effectiveness to back statements made by biopharma corporations about variant-specific vaccines, for example: "We have built a process that within 95 days from the day that we identify a variant as a variant of concern, we will be able to have a vaccine tailor-made against this variant," [Pfizer CEO] Bourla said. https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronavius-variant-likely-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronav...
- belltaco 5y ago
  They ran studeies/trials on variant vaccines they deveolped and found that it wasn't better enough than the original vaccine/booster to go to the large effort of rolling out a different vaccine all over again. Atleast for Delta and the UK variant.
- dboreham 5y ago
  They said they built a process. That's a different assertion than that any such vaccine will be effective. To know that would require a time machine. That said these people made a lifetimes work of being as sure as they can that such a thing will be effective. I don't think we have better information or hard evidence from other sources.
  - angelzen 5y ago
    I fully agree. To prove long term vaccine effectiveness (original, boosters, variants, sequence thereof) we indeed need a time machine. In other words, we are running a species level grand experiment with unknown outcomes. That biopharma corps are planning to routinely launch new immune stimulants without any long term effectiveness data gives me pause.
    - pixl97 5y ago
      We are always running grand experiments in virology, evolution never stops. We know the outcome of evolution, that is novel viruses pop up and kill massive numbers of people. My take of your entire thread is we let these natural processes kill millions because we fear a significantly smaller long term risk.

MuffinFlavored 5y ago

> There's plenty of evidence that current vaccines work against variants: Is there any reason to be afraid of getting vaccinated?

zzutz 5y ago
besides the fact that plenty of European countries have banned the use of certain vaccines because of heart issues? besides the fact that Fauci is responsible for funding bio-terrorism in Wuhan? No not really.
didibus 5y ago
> Is there any reason to be afraid of getting vaccinated? There's plenty of reasons, do you mean to also ask how likely other people on the internet believe each one to be? For example, if you ask me, this is my personal assessment: Reason 1 - Vaccines could also contain microchips or other device for tracking, brainwashing and remote manipulating my body and mind by whoever mastermind is in charge of what goes in them. I think that's very unlikely, I'd give it a 0.00000001% probability. I just dont know of any possibility for such advanced technology. And I can think of many different means that you can be more cost effectively tracked, manipulated or brain washed. I can also think of other ways they could have injected you with such things. Reason 2 - The vaccines will result in worst long terms negative effects on your health than getting Covid. I think this is a little more likely, but given all prior vaccines have shown to be quite safe, and even if they could be responsible for some long term effects, even some we haven't linked back to them yet, seeing as life expectancy and quality of life has grown year over year since the introduction of vaccines, it seems the equation would still play in their favor. There are also more and more literature linking prior viruses as a possible cause of long term negative effects like dimentia, various auto-immune diseases, etc. So it would seem Covid is more likely to introduce long term negative effects. So I'd give it a 1% chance. Reason 3 - The vaccines will result in worst short term effects on your health then getting Covid. I think this one has been shown that most of the time, Covid is more likely to kill you or make you really sick as compared to vaccines. I'd give this one a 0.0001% chance. Reason 4 - Vaccines can stop your pregnancy or your period and make you stink I have seen zero cases of this, and everyone who's had a vaccine to my nose do not smell, and still have period and can get pregnant. I'd give this one a 0.000000000000000001% chance. There might be more reasons, but those are the ones I've heard most often, and this is only my personal risk assessment.
- quesera 5y ago
  The non-crazy, non-simple faction of vaccine resistance argues about the likelihood of ADE, which is where the vaccine primes the immune system to have a larger reaction against some types of future infection. The typical dwell time before effect is something like 12-18 months. Argument goes along the lines that "all" previous coronovirus vaccines were found to have ADE effects. It took a long time for them to show up, but the effect was large and the trials were abandoned. So apparently we're still all going to die. Spring/Summer 2022 (northern hemisphere time) will be the cataclysm. I'm inadequately gnorant to evaluate the argument on merits, but I find it interesting because it fits the classic definition of "bullshit".
  - sdenton4 5y ago
    I heard we would all die after six months, but strangely haven't heard that number since August. Not just bullshit, but millennialist bullshit!
  - belltaco 5y ago
    >The non-crazy, non-simple faction of vaccine resistance argues about the likelihood of ADE, which is where the vaccine primes the immune system to have a larger reaction against some types of future infection. The typical dwell time before effect is something like 12-18 months. Didn't tens of thousands of trial participants get covid vaccines back during July to September last year? They're still monitored I think. If what you said is true then they should be dropping like flies which they are not.
    - quesera 5y ago
      Agreed. This is not my argument!
      - greg5green 5y ago
        Then why spread this terrible argument?

angelzen 5y ago

That is not the question I asked. Furthermore the degree of which the current vaccines work against variants is dependent of the variant itself, please consult the OA. (Also dependent on time, but that's a separate conversation .) I am asking specifically if there is any hard evidence of vaccine effectiveness to back statements made by biopharma corporations about variant-specific vaccines, for example: "We have built a process that within 95 days from the day that we identify a variant as a variant of concern, we will be able to have a vaccine tailor-made against this variant," [Pfizer CEO] Bourla said. https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronavius-variant-likely-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronav...

belltaco 5y ago
They ran studeies/trials on variant vaccines they deveolped and found that it wasn't better enough than the original vaccine/booster to go to the large effort of rolling out a different vaccine all over again. Atleast for Delta and the UK variant.
dboreham 5y ago
They said they built a process. That's a different assertion than that any such vaccine will be effective. To know that would require a time machine. That said these people made a lifetimes work of being as sure as they can that such a thing will be effective. I don't think we have better information or hard evidence from other sources.
- angelzen 5y ago
  I fully agree. To prove long term vaccine effectiveness (original, boosters, variants, sequence thereof) we indeed need a time machine. In other words, we are running a species level grand experiment with unknown outcomes. That biopharma corps are planning to routinely launch new immune stimulants without any long term effectiveness data gives me pause.
  - pixl97 5y ago
    We are always running grand experiments in virology, evolution never stops. We know the outcome of evolution, that is novel viruses pop up and kill massive numbers of people. My take of your entire thread is we let these natural processes kill millions because we fear a significantly smaller long term risk.