5 ms·

> How does viral outcompetion work? Basically one spreads faster than the other so after a few iterations almost all of new cases are the new variant. > How w

> How does viral outcompetion work? Basically one spreads faster than the other so after a few iterations almost all of new cases are the new variant. > How would Delta prevent A.30 from thriving? Directly by driving up immunity, indirectly by coercing people to take steps to slow the spread of delta, which also slows the spread of a.30. Things like vaccination, social distancing, mask wearing etc... > Why won't we become infected by Delta and A.30? Because Delta probably give you significantly more immunity than a vaccine. Specifically infection gives both more robust and stronger immunity than the vaccines.

rootusrootus 5y ago
> Specifically infection gives both more robust and stronger immunity than the vaccines. Isn't there evidence that says the opposite? And that immunity due to infection is much more variable between individuals and infections, due to how the immune system responds to the virus.
- kbelder 5y ago
  I haven't seen any evidence for that, but I've sure seen it claimed a lot.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I've seen it repeated pretty extensively on r/covid19, which I have to say comes across as a much more scientifically robust site for covid information than Hacker News. The quality of information here isn't much above Facebook.
    - greg5green 5y ago
      >I've seen it repeated pretty extensively on r/covid19, which I have to say comes across as a much more scientifically robust site for covid information than Hacker News. The quality of information here isn't much above Facebook. I 100% agree with you on the quality of information here vs. there. It is much, much more strictly moderated. But with that moderation, that subreddit does not recommend going out and getting COVID in lieu of a vaccine. Even if initial response is better for COVID. COVID + Vaccine is by far the best, but that doesn't mean you should skip the vaccine to make sure you go the 'rona frst. Vaccine + Vaccine (and maybe + vaccine) is, by far, the safest combination for pretty much everyone people.
- JamesBarney 5y ago
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... > SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected. > Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant. Also just in terms of baseline beliefs based on the physical world, I would assume that the vast majority of the time an infection would be more protective than a vaccine.
  - dev_tty01 5y ago
    >Also just in terms of baseline beliefs based on the physical world, I would assume that the vast majority of the time an infection would be more protective than a vaccine. It is also orders of magnitude more deadly. Vaccines are proven to be much safer than getting Covid. This is one preprint study comparing natural immunity to the Pfizer vaccine. It is interesting and may hold up after peer review. However, we have to be careful drawing broad conclusions and over interpreting these results. The danger is that we are already seeing many groups pointing to this study and trying to read this as meaning we should not be getting vaccinated, because obviously getting covid is better. We should not forget that in 2020 and into 2021, despite significant lock downs and enforced/encouraged masking, and without widely and globally available vaccinations we lost about 5 million people to Covid. Skipping vaccines in favor of "natural" immunity is a path to continued carnage.
    - UnFleshedOne 5y ago
      People are not usually saying getting covid is better (not without many qualifiers anyway), they are saying that if you already had covid, getting shots might have bad risk/benefit ratio. (you get all the risk for small additional protection).

rootusrootus 5y ago

> Specifically infection gives both more robust and stronger immunity than the vaccines. Isn't there evidence that says the opposite? And that immunity due to infection is much more variable between individuals and infections, due to how the immune system responds to the virus.

kbelder 5y ago
I haven't seen any evidence for that, but I've sure seen it claimed a lot.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I've seen it repeated pretty extensively on r/covid19, which I have to say comes across as a much more scientifically robust site for covid information than Hacker News. The quality of information here isn't much above Facebook.
  - greg5green 5y ago
    >I've seen it repeated pretty extensively on r/covid19, which I have to say comes across as a much more scientifically robust site for covid information than Hacker News. The quality of information here isn't much above Facebook. I 100% agree with you on the quality of information here vs. there. It is much, much more strictly moderated. But with that moderation, that subreddit does not recommend going out and getting COVID in lieu of a vaccine. Even if initial response is better for COVID. COVID + Vaccine is by far the best, but that doesn't mean you should skip the vaccine to make sure you go the 'rona frst. Vaccine + Vaccine (and maybe + vaccine) is, by far, the safest combination for pretty much everyone people.
JamesBarney 5y ago
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... > SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected. > Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant. Also just in terms of baseline beliefs based on the physical world, I would assume that the vast majority of the time an infection would be more protective than a vaccine.
- dev_tty01 5y ago
  >Also just in terms of baseline beliefs based on the physical world, I would assume that the vast majority of the time an infection would be more protective than a vaccine. It is also orders of magnitude more deadly. Vaccines are proven to be much safer than getting Covid. This is one preprint study comparing natural immunity to the Pfizer vaccine. It is interesting and may hold up after peer review. However, we have to be careful drawing broad conclusions and over interpreting these results. The danger is that we are already seeing many groups pointing to this study and trying to read this as meaning we should not be getting vaccinated, because obviously getting covid is better. We should not forget that in 2020 and into 2021, despite significant lock downs and enforced/encouraged masking, and without widely and globally available vaccinations we lost about 5 million people to Covid. Skipping vaccines in favor of "natural" immunity is a path to continued carnage.
  - UnFleshedOne 5y ago
    People are not usually saying getting covid is better (not without many qualifiers anyway), they are saying that if you already had covid, getting shots might have bad risk/benefit ratio. (you get all the risk for small additional protection).