3 ms·

I just have a really hard time understanding who this is targeting. If you're on average more willing to sacrifice privacy over ease of use, you're very likely

by hnarn 5y ago

I just have a really hard time understanding who this is targeting. If you're on average more willing to sacrifice privacy over ease of use, you're very likely not using Signal or Matrix anyway. So if you're not, but you're using both WhatsApp and Telegram, how is using two apps a big enough problem to set up a third one? Even if we disregard that, I can honestly say that I don't think using four separate apps is a problem. I don't even think using ten different apps is a problem, because it's mostly transparent to the user anyway. You get (configurable) notifications from all of them when you need to care about something, and the "sharing" feature on both iOS and Android these days is normally smart enough to figure out who, or at least which app, you want to share something to -- so for me this "multi app confusion" is already pretty well solved on an OS level, at least on mobile.

chayleaf 5y ago
why would privacy enthusiasts not use Matrix, considering it's fairly easy to self-host?
- hnarn 5y ago
  That’s not what I wrote.
Arathorn 5y ago
I constantly miss messages on TG, WA and Signal because I forget to check them regularly. It also really irks me that my conversations are trapped in those platforms without a public API, and I’d like to gather them together on an open platform like Matrix, and access them from every/any Matrix client i choose. Hence the use case for Element One :)
- hnarn 5y ago
  Why do you need to “check them” in the first place though? And yes, I can understand that for some people the inability to easily transfer and collect those conversations is a problem, but for many people (imo probably more people) the ephemeral nature of these messages is a feature, not a problem to be solved. At least that’s why I use Signal over Messenger, for example.
  - zfnmxt 5y ago
    > Why do you need to “check them” in the first place though? I have this problem; most Android apps send background notifications via Google's Firebase Cloud Messaging instead of rolling their own services. (Signal is an exception to this.) So, if you're unwilling to use Google Play services (or us an OS which doesn't support it), you're fucked and will not receive background notifications. The primary reason I use bridges with Matrix is not to unify my messaging experience into one app, it's to get notifications on my phone.
    - rnestler 5y ago
      > So, if you're unwilling to use Google Play services (or us an OS which doesn't support it), you're fucked and will not receive background notifications. I don't know about WhatsApp, but at least Telegram and Threema can fallback to polling if push notifications aren't available. With polling there is of course the trade off between battery usage and message delay, but you shouldn't miss any messages.
rkangel 5y ago
I've just signed up for this. I think "on average more willing to sacrifice privacy over ease of use" is probably a reasonable description of me. I'm not a fan at all of FB though, I have absolutely no trust in them at all. As such, I tried to get my world moved from WhatsApp to Signal. Inevitably I didn't succeed completely (although more than I expected) but now I'm split between those two. Plus I have some people who only communicate via FB messenger, and a few friends on Discord. To message someone I first have to remember which platform they prefer and then find it in my folder of chat apps. It's not an insurmountable problem obviously, but it does add friction. If I can have that all in one place, cross-platform with a decent UX then that's definitely worth $5 a month to me, plus all the bonuses: * I am actually moving in a more privacy focused direction. Yes I understand the caveats with bridges, but being on Matrix means that I can start a (slow) process of moving my interactions onto it * I don't have to worry about backing up my Signal messages (which is a pain to have automatically sync 'offsite' from your phone) * I can use it as my IRC client (with message history hanging around), etc. Let me put it another way - I've wanted to be on Matrix for a while but haven't quite managed it. I like the decentralised philosophy, both from a technical perspective and a privacy one but every time I've signed up it hasn't been worth it and/or it's too painful. This gets it over the hump for me (if it's as promised).
NikolaNovak 5y ago
If I can enhance understanding on any level, FYI FWIW I will sign up for this likely. 1. Yes - In this context I prefer convenience over impractical/unrealized encryption. (Not privacy - I find Whatsapp, which hinges on my personal private phone number, far less "private", than other traditional messenger apps which I can sign up for anonymously; and for my use cases it's not a realized encryption, as people I talk to have no concept of security and I should assume anything I send to them has been scrubbed by malware and any other apps they've intentionally installed and agreed to). 2. Dozen apps are annoying impractical and I darn tooting well do Not have their notifications enabled. I'll agree that Android sharing is awesome; my experience with iPhone sharing has been Far more limited. 3. Whatsapp is darn near impossible to effectively use multi-device. If this will let me chat to my in-laws (who are stuck on Whatsapp not for any privacy or encryption reasons but because "everybody uses it") from comfort of my computers and keyboards, reliably, then this is a shut up & take my money proposition. 3a. Anybody about to comment "But whatsapp works on computers", see my other replies:)

by hnarn 5y ago

chayleaf 5y ago

why would privacy enthusiasts not use Matrix, considering it's fairly easy to self-host?

hnarn 5y ago
That’s not what I wrote.

Arathorn 5y ago

I constantly miss messages on TG, WA and Signal because I forget to check them regularly. It also really irks me that my conversations are trapped in those platforms without a public API, and I’d like to gather them together on an open platform like Matrix, and access them from every/any Matrix client i choose. Hence the use case for Element One :)

hnarn 5y ago
Why do you need to “check them” in the first place though? And yes, I can understand that for some people the inability to easily transfer and collect those conversations is a problem, but for many people (imo probably more people) the ephemeral nature of these messages is a feature, not a problem to be solved. At least that’s why I use Signal over Messenger, for example.
- zfnmxt 5y ago
  > Why do you need to “check them” in the first place though? I have this problem; most Android apps send background notifications via Google's Firebase Cloud Messaging instead of rolling their own services. (Signal is an exception to this.) So, if you're unwilling to use Google Play services (or us an OS which doesn't support it), you're fucked and will not receive background notifications. The primary reason I use bridges with Matrix is not to unify my messaging experience into one app, it's to get notifications on my phone.
  - rnestler 5y ago
    > So, if you're unwilling to use Google Play services (or us an OS which doesn't support it), you're fucked and will not receive background notifications. I don't know about WhatsApp, but at least Telegram and Threema can fallback to polling if push notifications aren't available. With polling there is of course the trade off between battery usage and message delay, but you shouldn't miss any messages.

rkangel 5y ago

I've just signed up for this. I think "on average more willing to sacrifice privacy over ease of use" is probably a reasonable description of me. I'm not a fan at all of FB though, I have absolutely no trust in them at all. As such, I tried to get my world moved from WhatsApp to Signal. Inevitably I didn't succeed completely (although more than I expected) but now I'm split between those two. Plus I have some people who only communicate via FB messenger, and a few friends on Discord. To message someone I first have to remember which platform they prefer and then find it in my folder of chat apps. It's not an insurmountable problem obviously, but it does add friction. If I can have that all in one place, cross-platform with a decent UX then that's definitely worth $5 a month to me, plus all the bonuses: * I am actually moving in a more privacy focused direction. Yes I understand the caveats with bridges, but being on Matrix means that I can start a (slow) process of moving my interactions onto it * I don't have to worry about backing up my Signal messages (which is a pain to have automatically sync 'offsite' from your phone) * I can use it as my IRC client (with message history hanging around), etc. Let me put it another way - I've wanted to be on Matrix for a while but haven't quite managed it. I like the decentralised philosophy, both from a technical perspective and a privacy one but every time I've signed up it hasn't been worth it and/or it's too painful. This gets it over the hump for me (if it's as promised).

NikolaNovak 5y ago

If I can enhance understanding on any level, FYI FWIW I will sign up for this likely. 1. Yes - In this context I prefer convenience over impractical/unrealized encryption. (Not privacy - I find Whatsapp, which hinges on my personal private phone number, far less "private", than other traditional messenger apps which I can sign up for anonymously; and for my use cases it's not a realized encryption, as people I talk to have no concept of security and I should assume anything I send to them has been scrubbed by malware and any other apps they've intentionally installed and agreed to). 2. Dozen apps are annoying impractical and I darn tooting well do Not have their notifications enabled. I'll agree that Android sharing is awesome; my experience with iPhone sharing has been Far more limited. 3. Whatsapp is darn near impossible to effectively use multi-device. If this will let me chat to my in-laws (who are stuck on Whatsapp not for any privacy or encryption reasons but because "everybody uses it") from comfort of my computers and keyboards, reliably, then this is a shut up & take my money proposition. 3a. Anybody about to comment "But whatsapp works on computers", see my other replies:)