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Unrelated question. My girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and she is quite distraught with the fact that she is being payed less than me for working significantl

by lpapez 5y ago

Unrelated question. My girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and she is quite distraught with the fact that she is being payed less than me for working significantly more hours on a job with vastly more responsibility and risk (I work on embedded devices which have 0% chance of causing injury or death). She doesn't want to consider career switch because she already invested 12 years of her life into medicine. I am supportive of course, but to me this is a clear example of a "sunk cost fallacy". How did you get over that?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Based on the 12 years of education, I am guessing you are in the US. Median anesthesiologist income is ~$400k/year. The odds of her earning similar, even per hour, if she switches to programming may cause sticking to being a doctor make more sense.
- lpapez 5y ago
  Nope, Eastern Europe. We both got pretty good education (even got to study abroad for a few semesters) and it was free for both of us, but her annual pay is around 30k$ while mine is around 35k$ (the median wage is about 15k$). Its really easy to earn more than that if you remotely work for a German or American company, but as a doctor you cant do that unless you move (not an option).
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Oh, my bad. Yes, that changes things quite a bit. I am surprised it takes 12 years in Eastern Europe. I thought it was ~8 years in Europe.
    - lpapez 5y ago
      6 years college minimum. Mandatory one year of general practice and then you can apply for specialist education. Specialization can then take years to begin, but it can also start right away depending how lucky you are and you do it for five years minimum. So that makes it 12 years minimum. After that, most hospitals require you to stay working there for another 5 years otherwise you have to pay for specialization school (about 30k$). After that, you are free to live your life :)
  - emerongi 5y ago
    The sad truth is that your girlfriend in the wrong country. It's the same in mine, where many doctors move to nearby countries where they can earn many multiples more.
dmak 5y ago
I am assuming you are an engi. If so, it's about the leverage. Her time, responsibility, and risk is 1:1. An engi's time can lead to exponential returns, and mistakes can lead to exponential disaster.
- noiwillnot 5y ago
  Leverage just set the ceiling, then you enter on offer and demand kind of world. Software developers just have it good in 2021. Also, if OP lives in a low income country, he has better options to sell himself compared to a doctor, normally constrained to the local market.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Not sure what you mean by "exponential", but mistakes by an anaestheseologist can certainly lead to disaster. Like, people can die. I'd think at least for the people doing the dying that's quite "exponential" enough. How is the possibility of killing people if you make a mistake on the job more "risk is 1:1" than for a software developer (or "engi", as the trendy kids apparently call it nowadays)?
tpoacher 5y ago
I told myself exactly what you just said. That this thinking was effectively the "sunken cost fallacy". In the end it was about prioritising my personal satisfaction and 'happiness' over what a more conservative mind would think 'I should do' (one aspect of which was the financial sense). I am not super rich nor super successful at my choice of profession now (partly because I'm 10 years older than everyone else in my position right now, which can be an issue in itself), but I largely enjoy what I do despite the stressors and pressure that my particular position puts me in, and I'm trying to use my richer experience to 'catch up' career-wise as quickly as I can, so to speak. I's not a black and white decision of course, and I'd be lying if I said I have zero doubts. There are still moments where I think "what if I hadn't left". Would I have been happier staying miserable but with lots of money to choose my preferred form of misery? :p Is it better to be 'poor' (by comparison) due to cost of the 10-year career lag in the new field, but in a more fulfilling profession? In general, 9 times out of 10 when I think about it I'm happy it was the right decision and not one that I regret. But there's still that 1 in 10 which nags you, especially when you get together with your old colleagues who are driving ferraris and talking about how delicious that £1,000 champagne bottle was last week while skiing in the Alps. (I actually despise that lifestyle, but for some reason it still stings when it's rubbed right in your face...) As for how I made the decision to leave, for me the big moment was when I realised I was bound to rebel sooner or later, because my psychology, sense of satisfaction, social life, and quality of life were all crap. This gives the sunken cost fallacy new context: your options are not just "not leave" vs "leave now". This in itself is the fallacy of the false dichotomy! Other options also included "endure another 10 years before giving up", "endure another 20 years", "endure another 30", and so on. So the question got reframed into "leave now and waste 10 years of medicine? Or leave in 10 years' time and waste 20 years of medicine?". Similarly, "If I leave now, do I still have a sporting chance of achieving something meaningful in the new field before I have to retire? How does this change if I delay this start by another 10 years instead?" It was easy to make the decision to leave right away after that. :)

by lpapez 5y ago

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Based on the 12 years of education, I am guessing you are in the US. Median anesthesiologist income is ~$400k/year. The odds of her earning similar, even per hour, if she switches to programming may cause sticking to being a doctor make more sense.

lpapez 5y ago
Nope, Eastern Europe. We both got pretty good education (even got to study abroad for a few semesters) and it was free for both of us, but her annual pay is around 30k$ while mine is around 35k$ (the median wage is about 15k$). Its really easy to earn more than that if you remotely work for a German or American company, but as a doctor you cant do that unless you move (not an option).
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Oh, my bad. Yes, that changes things quite a bit. I am surprised it takes 12 years in Eastern Europe. I thought it was ~8 years in Europe.
  - lpapez 5y ago
    6 years college minimum. Mandatory one year of general practice and then you can apply for specialist education. Specialization can then take years to begin, but it can also start right away depending how lucky you are and you do it for five years minimum. So that makes it 12 years minimum. After that, most hospitals require you to stay working there for another 5 years otherwise you have to pay for specialization school (about 30k$). After that, you are free to live your life :)
- emerongi 5y ago
  The sad truth is that your girlfriend in the wrong country. It's the same in mine, where many doctors move to nearby countries where they can earn many multiples more.

dmak 5y ago

I am assuming you are an engi. If so, it's about the leverage. Her time, responsibility, and risk is 1:1. An engi's time can lead to exponential returns, and mistakes can lead to exponential disaster.

noiwillnot 5y ago
Leverage just set the ceiling, then you enter on offer and demand kind of world. Software developers just have it good in 2021. Also, if OP lives in a low income country, he has better options to sell himself compared to a doctor, normally constrained to the local market.
CRConrad 5y ago
Not sure what you mean by "exponential", but mistakes by an anaestheseologist can certainly lead to disaster. Like, people can die. I'd think at least for the people doing the dying that's quite "exponential" enough. How is the possibility of killing people if you make a mistake on the job more "risk is 1:1" than for a software developer (or "engi", as the trendy kids apparently call it nowadays)?

tpoacher 5y ago

I told myself exactly what you just said. That this thinking was effectively the "sunken cost fallacy". In the end it was about prioritising my personal satisfaction and 'happiness' over what a more conservative mind would think 'I should do' (one aspect of which was the financial sense). I am not super rich nor super successful at my choice of profession now (partly because I'm 10 years older than everyone else in my position right now, which can be an issue in itself), but I largely enjoy what I do despite the stressors and pressure that my particular position puts me in, and I'm trying to use my richer experience to 'catch up' career-wise as quickly as I can, so to speak. I's not a black and white decision of course, and I'd be lying if I said I have zero doubts. There are still moments where I think "what if I hadn't left". Would I have been happier staying miserable but with lots of money to choose my preferred form of misery? :p Is it better to be 'poor' (by comparison) due to cost of the 10-year career lag in the new field, but in a more fulfilling profession? In general, 9 times out of 10 when I think about it I'm happy it was the right decision and not one that I regret. But there's still that 1 in 10 which nags you, especially when you get together with your old colleagues who are driving ferraris and talking about how delicious that £1,000 champagne bottle was last week while skiing in the Alps. (I actually despise that lifestyle, but for some reason it still stings when it's rubbed right in your face...) As for how I made the decision to leave, for me the big moment was when I realised I was bound to rebel sooner or later, because my psychology, sense of satisfaction, social life, and quality of life were all crap. This gives the sunken cost fallacy new context: your options are not just "not leave" vs "leave now". This in itself is the fallacy of the false dichotomy! Other options also included "endure another 10 years before giving up", "endure another 20 years", "endure another 30", and so on. So the question got reframed into "leave now and waste 10 years of medicine? Or leave in 10 years' time and waste 20 years of medicine?". Similarly, "If I leave now, do I still have a sporting chance of achieving something meaningful in the new field before I have to retire? How does this change if I delay this start by another 10 years instead?" It was easy to make the decision to leave right away after that. :)