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>Hydro One, which distributes electricity for most rural customers in the province, eventually reduced the cost to $25,000. It was still too much, according to

>Hydro One, which distributes electricity for most rural customers in the province, eventually reduced the cost to $25,000. It was still too much, according to Timmermans. >Combined, the system( wind-and-solar array) produces eight kilowatt hours — more than enough to run his offices, radio studios, the central air conditioning and the servers that keep his internet customers connected year 'round, he says. >It cost him $23,000.

mulmen 5y ago
The next sentence: > "And then on top of that, to pay, you know, an electric bill, probably at around four to five hundred dollars a month for the rest of my life and only increasing. I thought, well, now's the time to go off-grid." So what’s the total cost of ownership for his system? Does it have $400.00/mo of upkeep?
- marvin 5y ago
  The $23,000 probably have a capital cost of $30 per month or so, and if they're written off to nothing in 20 years (and the acquisition cost isn't lower by then, which it will), that's another $100 per month. So that leaves $270 per month for maintenance, emergency supply and other upkeep. Seems completely reasonable that the actual costs will be lower.
  - koheripbal 5y ago
    This is an apples to oranges comparison since there is no way he'd have anywhere near the same uptime as on-grid power.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      How did you come to that conclusion?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Indeed, his uptime will be many orders of magnitude better than what the Ontario grid can provide. It's an apples to oranges comparison specifically because it is the lines (and not the generating capacity) that fails very, very regularly in rural Ontario.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      My rural Ontario cousins would like to chat with you about grid up time in rural Ontario.
    - SamBam 5y ago
      The top comment on this post [1] says the exact opposite, that the reason they are off-grid is precisely for the reliability. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28998847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28998847
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
And note that even with a connection fee of zero, his autonomous setup would start to pay for itself after four years, due to no longer having to pay power bill of $400-$500 a month. Thats assuming zero maintenance costs so not quite correct, but it can't be too far off. It really is a no-brainer.
albatrosstrophy 5y ago
Also he mentioned they have to run on propane in winter. I wonder how much would that cost.
- voisin 5y ago
  Most people in Canada use natural gas (if the network exists near one’s home) or propane (if not) for heat in the winter. Electric is considered too expensive. I think things like electric heat pumps are more cost effective nowadays to something like -5C, but alas, much of Canada is far colder for many months.
  - xavieralexandre 5y ago
    Dig a few meters and your soil will be 13C, a great starting point for your heat pump.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  About the same as electric, but a bit more hassle if it can't be delivered by truck. The most economic option is an outdoor woodstove, about $10K to install a big one and after that you need to keep it fed, a heat pump is another viable alternative. Another option is fuel oil (essentially: diesel), in an oil burning furnace. The best way to cut your heating bill in Northern Canada is insulation, wooden houses are pretty good at this to begin with, you can get pretty close to neutrality by some solid engineering (South facing windows, take advantage of thermal mass), then you only need to add additional heat besides what you already generate when cooking on long stretches of overcast days, which don't happen all that often there.
- bregma 5y ago
  Where I live (rural Ontario), propane costs somewhere around $2500/year for heat. Hydro costs about $4000. The sane people stick to wood, which if you cut and split it yourself will keep to under $1000. We have disconnected all the electric heaters in my house (except for the newly-installed radiant-heat floor in the bathroom, because it's a luxury I'm willing to splurge on) and only fire up the second woodstove for those weeks it drops below -20.

mulmen 5y ago

The next sentence: > "And then on top of that, to pay, you know, an electric bill, probably at around four to five hundred dollars a month for the rest of my life and only increasing. I thought, well, now's the time to go off-grid." So what’s the total cost of ownership for his system? Does it have $400.00/mo of upkeep?

marvin 5y ago
The $23,000 probably have a capital cost of $30 per month or so, and if they're written off to nothing in 20 years (and the acquisition cost isn't lower by then, which it will), that's another $100 per month. So that leaves $270 per month for maintenance, emergency supply and other upkeep. Seems completely reasonable that the actual costs will be lower.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  This is an apples to oranges comparison since there is no way he'd have anywhere near the same uptime as on-grid power.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    How did you come to that conclusion?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Indeed, his uptime will be many orders of magnitude better than what the Ontario grid can provide. It's an apples to oranges comparison specifically because it is the lines (and not the generating capacity) that fails very, very regularly in rural Ontario.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    My rural Ontario cousins would like to chat with you about grid up time in rural Ontario.
  - SamBam 5y ago
    The top comment on this post [1] says the exact opposite, that the reason they are off-grid is precisely for the reliability. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28998847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28998847

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

And note that even with a connection fee of zero, his autonomous setup would start to pay for itself after four years, due to no longer having to pay power bill of $400-$500 a month. Thats assuming zero maintenance costs so not quite correct, but it can't be too far off. It really is a no-brainer.

albatrosstrophy 5y ago

Also he mentioned they have to run on propane in winter. I wonder how much would that cost.

voisin 5y ago
Most people in Canada use natural gas (if the network exists near one’s home) or propane (if not) for heat in the winter. Electric is considered too expensive. I think things like electric heat pumps are more cost effective nowadays to something like -5C, but alas, much of Canada is far colder for many months.
- xavieralexandre 5y ago
  Dig a few meters and your soil will be 13C, a great starting point for your heat pump.
jacquesm 5y ago
About the same as electric, but a bit more hassle if it can't be delivered by truck. The most economic option is an outdoor woodstove, about $10K to install a big one and after that you need to keep it fed, a heat pump is another viable alternative. Another option is fuel oil (essentially: diesel), in an oil burning furnace. The best way to cut your heating bill in Northern Canada is insulation, wooden houses are pretty good at this to begin with, you can get pretty close to neutrality by some solid engineering (South facing windows, take advantage of thermal mass), then you only need to add additional heat besides what you already generate when cooking on long stretches of overcast days, which don't happen all that often there.
bregma 5y ago
Where I live (rural Ontario), propane costs somewhere around $2500/year for heat. Hydro costs about $4000. The sane people stick to wood, which if you cut and split it yourself will keep to under $1000. We have disconnected all the electric heaters in my house (except for the newly-installed radiant-heat floor in the bathroom, because it's a luxury I'm willing to splurge on) and only fire up the second woodstove for those weeks it drops below -20.