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> the RIIR narrative doesn't actually belong to the Rust community As someone who has been the target of aggressive "rewrite it in rust" comments and "pressure

> the RIIR narrative doesn't actually belong to the Rust community As someone who has been the target of aggressive "rewrite it in rust" comments and "pressure" (multiple issues and useless discussions) on one of my projects that probably completely depends on how you define "the Rust community". The highly annoying RIIR crowd certainly does stem from Rust users. As a Rust user myself I'd like to distance myself from them too, but that doesn't really change that they do come from the Rust community.

lionkor 5y ago
To be fair, elitists exist in every language. This is not a fault of Rust, but annoying either way.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
  True
brabel 5y ago
It annoys me a lot when people try to describe a community, specially a completely open one as programming language communities where literally anyone can come an go at any time, as having certain characteristics. It's similar to when you try to generalize over nationalities. While there may be some small truth in it over very large numbers, there's always going to be plenty of exceptions so that making such generalizations should ALWAYS be considered inappropriate, be it "negative" or not. Even more so when there are large minorities within the community. I do agree that the RIIR is likely to be one of these minorities, but that doesn't make them NOT part of the Rust community. Another "minority" in the Rust community that I have noticed a lot in my projects/blog posts is made up of those who are never satisfied with any Rust code: there's always some better way to write something, or some more efficient implementation, and your code definitely sucks... Rust is a very large language with many features, so there's always a lot of ways to do things, but even two extremely highly skilled Rust developers are highly likely to disagree on which way is "the best" for a certain non-trivial design decision... the fear of not using the best alternative and being ridiculed by other Rust developers claiming my approach is bad makes me quite cautious about showing Rust code in any blog post I write. But I still don't want to claim this is a characteristic of "the Rust community", just like I would hesitate to say "the Rust community is very welcoming". We probably just need to stop the human impulse to generalize about groups of people, that's all.
- sammorrowdrums 5y ago
  This is true in politics and religion as well, the outward facing representation of a group is often defined by its loudest proponents. They are often not representative of the group. But external perception is still important and easily shaped by loud / repeat voices. Disavowing certain behaviours works on a personal level, but otherwise people who wield power in such groups have to try and use that power to try to improve external perception often in spite of the many vocal members of the group. The world is full of self-selected spokespeople.

lionkor 5y ago

To be fair, elitists exist in every language. This is not a fault of Rust, but annoying either way.

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
True

brabel 5y ago

It annoys me a lot when people try to describe a community, specially a completely open one as programming language communities where literally anyone can come an go at any time, as having certain characteristics. It's similar to when you try to generalize over nationalities. While there may be some small truth in it over very large numbers, there's always going to be plenty of exceptions so that making such generalizations should ALWAYS be considered inappropriate, be it "negative" or not. Even more so when there are large minorities within the community. I do agree that the RIIR is likely to be one of these minorities, but that doesn't make them NOT part of the Rust community. Another "minority" in the Rust community that I have noticed a lot in my projects/blog posts is made up of those who are never satisfied with any Rust code: there's always some better way to write something, or some more efficient implementation, and your code definitely sucks... Rust is a very large language with many features, so there's always a lot of ways to do things, but even two extremely highly skilled Rust developers are highly likely to disagree on which way is "the best" for a certain non-trivial design decision... the fear of not using the best alternative and being ridiculed by other Rust developers claiming my approach is bad makes me quite cautious about showing Rust code in any blog post I write. But I still don't want to claim this is a characteristic of "the Rust community", just like I would hesitate to say "the Rust community is very welcoming". We probably just need to stop the human impulse to generalize about groups of people, that's all.

sammorrowdrums 5y ago
This is true in politics and religion as well, the outward facing representation of a group is often defined by its loudest proponents. They are often not representative of the group. But external perception is still important and easily shaped by loud / repeat voices. Disavowing certain behaviours works on a personal level, but otherwise people who wield power in such groups have to try and use that power to try to improve external perception often in spite of the many vocal members of the group. The world is full of self-selected spokespeople.