4 ms·

This is why radio is so important, for moments like this, where all the standard ways of communication are shut down.

brightball 5y ago
100% agree. One of my neighbors is a big Ham radio guy and it’s reassuring to know that.
diggan 5y ago
Yes! Mesh networks with WiFi radios are particularly interesting as there is prior art[0] and also uses unlicensed spectrum so it's very easy to join the existing communities. Simply see (literally) who you have a line-of-sight to, setup your antenna, start peering and you're connected! I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135 https://guifi.net/node/102135 It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation. - [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/ https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/ https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/ https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more
McDyver 5y ago
Yes, HAM radio that can be used as an alternative. Here are some resources: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
- teddyh 5y ago
  Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
  - gaius_baltar 5y ago
    > Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet. But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
    - bserge 5y ago
      https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo
- JshWright 5y ago
  "Ham" isn't an acronym and shouldn't be written in all caps. Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    I was going to fire back and nitpick your use of lower-case Internet, but I see the tide has changed and I'm now on the losing side of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet
    - JshWright 5y ago
      I wouldn’t really consider HAM/ham to be a nitpick though… If I capitalized a random WORD in a sentence, wouldn’t that look odd?
bserge 5y ago
Yeah, good old unjammable radio.
- nvelty 5y ago
  Electronic warfare isn't unbeatable - good operating practice, flexibility, and persistence can still allow communications to get through in a contested spectrum.
- mbreese 5y ago
  It’s a lot harder to jam (multiple) radio frequencies than it is to cut off (even physically) a smaller number of internet uplinks. And if transmissions start hopping around to different frequencies, then you have to keep actively jamming them. Cutting off internet access is (largely) a one-time only situation.
nvelty 5y ago
HN seems to forget about this in HAM threads. Obviously the odds of losing internet access suddenly and for extended periods of time seems pretty unlikely in the US, but a few days ago many in Sudan probably thought the same. Radio requires no additional infrastructure between you and the receiver, receivers can be improvised by someone with an undergraduate knowledge of electronics, and HF communications can reach literally across the planet. Yes the internet is superior for the overwhelming majority of use cases, but if it's not available, radio is a very important fallback.

100% agree. One of my neighbors is a big Ham radio guy and it’s reassuring to know that.

Yes! Mesh networks with WiFi radios are particularly interesting as there is prior art[0] and also uses unlicensed spectrum so it's very easy to join the existing communities. Simply see (literally) who you have a line-of-sight to, setup your antenna, start peering and you're connected! I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135 https://guifi.net/node/102135 It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation. - [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/ https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/ https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/ https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more

McDyver 5y ago

Yes, HAM radio that can be used as an alternative. Here are some resources: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet

teddyh 5y ago
Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
- gaius_baltar 5y ago
  > Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet. But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
  - bserge 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo
JshWright 5y ago
"Ham" isn't an acronym and shouldn't be written in all caps. Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
- kingcharles 5y ago
  I was going to fire back and nitpick your use of lower-case Internet, but I see the tide has changed and I'm now on the losing side of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet
  - JshWright 5y ago
    I wouldn’t really consider HAM/ham to be a nitpick though… If I capitalized a random WORD in a sentence, wouldn’t that look odd?

bserge 5y ago

Yeah, good old unjammable radio.

nvelty 5y ago
Electronic warfare isn't unbeatable - good operating practice, flexibility, and persistence can still allow communications to get through in a contested spectrum.
mbreese 5y ago
It’s a lot harder to jam (multiple) radio frequencies than it is to cut off (even physically) a smaller number of internet uplinks. And if transmissions start hopping around to different frequencies, then you have to keep actively jamming them. Cutting off internet access is (largely) a one-time only situation.

nvelty 5y ago

HN seems to forget about this in HAM threads. Obviously the odds of losing internet access suddenly and for extended periods of time seems pretty unlikely in the US, but a few days ago many in Sudan probably thought the same. Radio requires no additional infrastructure between you and the receiver, receivers can be improvised by someone with an undergraduate knowledge of electronics, and HF communications can reach literally across the planet. Yes the internet is superior for the overwhelming majority of use cases, but if it's not available, radio is a very important fallback.