8 ms·

Sudan woke up without Internet

129 points by pimterry 5y ago

lemoncookiechip 5y ago
This is why radio is so important, for moments like this, where all the standard ways of communication are shut down.
- brightball 5y ago
  100% agree. One of my neighbors is a big Ham radio guy and it’s reassuring to know that.
- diggan 5y ago
  Yes! Mesh networks with WiFi radios are particularly interesting as there is prior art[0] and also uses unlicensed spectrum so it's very easy to join the existing communities. Simply see (literally) who you have a line-of-sight to, setup your antenna, start peering and you're connected! I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135 https://guifi.net/node/102135 It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation. - [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/ https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/ https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/ https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more
- McDyver 5y ago
  Yes, HAM radio that can be used as an alternative. Here are some resources: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
  - teddyh 5y ago
    Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
    - gaius_baltar 5y ago
      > Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet. But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
      - bserge 5y ago
        https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo
  - JshWright 5y ago
    "Ham" isn't an acronym and shouldn't be written in all caps. Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      I was going to fire back and nitpick your use of lower-case Internet, but I see the tide has changed and I'm now on the losing side of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet
      - JshWright 5y ago
        I wouldn’t really consider HAM/ham to be a nitpick though… If I capitalized a random WORD in a sentence, wouldn’t that look odd?
- bserge 5y ago
  Yeah, good old unjammable radio.
  - nvelty 5y ago
    Electronic warfare isn't unbeatable - good operating practice, flexibility, and persistence can still allow communications to get through in a contested spectrum.
  - mbreese 5y ago
    It’s a lot harder to jam (multiple) radio frequencies than it is to cut off (even physically) a smaller number of internet uplinks. And if transmissions start hopping around to different frequencies, then you have to keep actively jamming them. Cutting off internet access is (largely) a one-time only situation.
- nvelty 5y ago
  HN seems to forget about this in HAM threads. Obviously the odds of losing internet access suddenly and for extended periods of time seems pretty unlikely in the US, but a few days ago many in Sudan probably thought the same. Radio requires no additional infrastructure between you and the receiver, receivers can be improvised by someone with an undergraduate knowledge of electronics, and HF communications can reach literally across the planet. Yes the internet is superior for the overwhelming majority of use cases, but if it's not available, radio is a very important fallback.
iso1210 5y ago
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985981 from yesterday
ebanana 5y ago
did the insurrectionist do it or was it the former government?
- dustintrex 5y ago
  The army, which is a complicated equation of both.
plastman 5y ago
Ah yes, the good ol' master internet killer switch. This happened before in Egypt during Jan. 2011.
nanna 5y ago
Poor Sudan. This coup means its process of democratisation is back to square one. Awful news. The West should take its fair share of responsibility though. The structural adjustments that the IMF and World Bank were demanding from the new government were going to be brutal for Sudanese society, and it's no surprise that people were out protesting in force, which lead to the military taking back control on the basis of imposing stability and security.
llimos 5y ago
Trying to imagine what this would be like. There are so many things we take for granted, have never had to manage without, and build our lives on top of, without thinking about how easily they could just not be there one day. Food in the supermarket, water, telephone service... And imagine that they go away and there's nothing you can do about it. No-one to complain to. What do you even do? Yes, obviously Internet isn't the worst of the set to lose. But it's a way in to thinking about the feeling that something you've utterly relied on can just ... stop.
- bserge 5y ago
  Hopefully learn that getting everything to rely on an Internet connection was the dumbest thing to happen this century. Brb, my notepad needs to update.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  This is why everyone should have a bugout bag and possibly radio training. This isn't some prepper crap, I wager 99% of people simply have no way of surviving more than a few days without core services. The internet failing kinda sucks, but thats what a charged kindle is for.
  - tejohnso 5y ago
    Why would you need to bugout when core services are down? Wouldn't a well stocked pantry and / or cold cellar be more appropriate? You don't have to leave your home with a backpack just because the supermarket is empty.
    - nvelty 5y ago
      It depends on the nature of the event and the area you live in. Preppers who plan on "bugging out" are usually concerned with local unrest following the loss of services. They would also (hopefully) already have a destination in mind rather simply going "innawoods". Provided you have a safe community, having a reasonable stockpile of basic supplies and neighbors you can trust, remaining in place is usually a better option. A firearm or two would also be advisable in either case.
crhutchins 5y ago
Think about those who are entrepreneurs that are solely dependent on internet connection. It's hard for them as this is their way of living.
emadabdulrahim 5y ago
I lived a similar experience back in Cairo during the Arab Spring. People had no internet access for over 10 days. It was their way of shutting down communication between people protesting on the streets and their family and friends. Needless to say, when that happened, I simply lived down in Tahrir square since my brother was already there and I had no other way of checking on him. Now that I'm in San Francisco, I can't tell you the libration I feel every single day by being able to do and say whatever I want. By being able to think, really think. Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.
- willk 5y ago
  > Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it. Can you expand on this? I’d like to understand your view better. How does the far left not appreciate it?
  - zo1 5y ago
    Not OP. But from my perspective, there has been a huge amount of silencing of speech for non-Left or non-mainstream opinions. Not always in the form of raw censorship, but a weird kind of endorsement, repetition and tacit-acceptance by institutions of only Left-leaning views, and also fear and bully-like tactics that has the ultimate effect of people self-censoring if they happen to be outside of that seemingly-narrow and "Left"-leaning set of opinions. There are so many opinions that are downright foot-guns or taboos in any sort of public arena for example. And we don't even notice how we self-censor those opinions, nor do we notice it until we have those opinions/ideas and try to voice them. I'm relatively civil and polite on HN, but I don't dare repeat most of what I express here under my real identity.
  - emadabdulrahim 5y ago
    The attack on comedians, the insistence on de-platforming folks that say anything outside the mainstream consensus. Cancel culture and the elevation of sensitivity. It's one thing for one to share their opinion "I don't like this, this is inappropriate", it's different when one is seeking power to shutdown the person they're disagreeing with. All of this makes people who have a different perspective, who might want to share their own personal experience that doesn't quite fit the narrative, to withhold and play it safe. Which ties back to freedom of speech. I've experienced this myself in my career in large SV tech companies. And my friends in Academia share similar stories and concerns.

129 points by pimterry 5y ago

lemoncookiechip 5y ago

This is why radio is so important, for moments like this, where all the standard ways of communication are shut down.

brightball 5y ago
100% agree. One of my neighbors is a big Ham radio guy and it’s reassuring to know that.
diggan 5y ago
Yes! Mesh networks with WiFi radios are particularly interesting as there is prior art[0] and also uses unlicensed spectrum so it's very easy to join the existing communities. Simply see (literally) who you have a line-of-sight to, setup your antenna, start peering and you're connected! I used to run the following node on Guifi: https://guifi.net/node/102135 https://guifi.net/node/102135 It had direct line-of-sight to a node 3.8 KMs away, latency was excellent all the way to Barcelona via Guifi (think it was under 5ms) and would do again if I move to a place with higher elevation. - [0] Guifi(https://guifi.net/ https://guifi.net/), Freifunk(https://freifunk.net/ https://freifunk.net/), NYC Mesh(https://www.nycmesh.net/ https://www.nycmesh.net/) and more
McDyver 5y ago
Yes, HAM radio that can be used as an alternative. Here are some resources: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:HAM_Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
- teddyh 5y ago
  Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet.
  - gaius_baltar 5y ago
    > Ham radio, for which you need a license issued by the government, the very same government which took down the internet. But as the government is now the enemy, why would somebody refrain from operating without a license? And managing from being found, of course. OTOH, hams from other countries may refuse to communicate with unlicensed users, splitting the network...
    - bserge 5y ago
      https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo https://youtu.be/B3EBs7sCOzo
- JshWright 5y ago
  "Ham" isn't an acronym and shouldn't be written in all caps. Using ham radio as an internet replacement (even for basic communication) isn't exactly trivial though. I have all the necessary bits lying around, and years of experience with the topic, and it would still take me quite a bit of fiddling to get a functional AX.25 link up and running (and that's just my end of it).
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    I was going to fire back and nitpick your use of lower-case Internet, but I see the tide has changed and I'm now on the losing side of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_of_Internet
    - JshWright 5y ago
      I wouldn’t really consider HAM/ham to be a nitpick though… If I capitalized a random WORD in a sentence, wouldn’t that look odd?
bserge 5y ago
Yeah, good old unjammable radio.
- nvelty 5y ago
  Electronic warfare isn't unbeatable - good operating practice, flexibility, and persistence can still allow communications to get through in a contested spectrum.
- mbreese 5y ago
  It’s a lot harder to jam (multiple) radio frequencies than it is to cut off (even physically) a smaller number of internet uplinks. And if transmissions start hopping around to different frequencies, then you have to keep actively jamming them. Cutting off internet access is (largely) a one-time only situation.
nvelty 5y ago
HN seems to forget about this in HAM threads. Obviously the odds of losing internet access suddenly and for extended periods of time seems pretty unlikely in the US, but a few days ago many in Sudan probably thought the same. Radio requires no additional infrastructure between you and the receiver, receivers can be improvised by someone with an undergraduate knowledge of electronics, and HF communications can reach literally across the planet. Yes the internet is superior for the overwhelming majority of use cases, but if it's not available, radio is a very important fallback.

iso1210 5y ago

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28985981 from yesterday

ebanana 5y ago

did the insurrectionist do it or was it the former government?

dustintrex 5y ago
The army, which is a complicated equation of both.

plastman 5y ago

Ah yes, the good ol' master internet killer switch. This happened before in Egypt during Jan. 2011.

nanna 5y ago

Poor Sudan. This coup means its process of democratisation is back to square one. Awful news. The West should take its fair share of responsibility though. The structural adjustments that the IMF and World Bank were demanding from the new government were going to be brutal for Sudanese society, and it's no surprise that people were out protesting in force, which lead to the military taking back control on the basis of imposing stability and security.

llimos 5y ago

Trying to imagine what this would be like. There are so many things we take for granted, have never had to manage without, and build our lives on top of, without thinking about how easily they could just not be there one day. Food in the supermarket, water, telephone service... And imagine that they go away and there's nothing you can do about it. No-one to complain to. What do you even do? Yes, obviously Internet isn't the worst of the set to lose. But it's a way in to thinking about the feeling that something you've utterly relied on can just ... stop.

bserge 5y ago
Hopefully learn that getting everything to rely on an Internet connection was the dumbest thing to happen this century. Brb, my notepad needs to update.
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
This is why everyone should have a bugout bag and possibly radio training. This isn't some prepper crap, I wager 99% of people simply have no way of surviving more than a few days without core services. The internet failing kinda sucks, but thats what a charged kindle is for.
- tejohnso 5y ago
  Why would you need to bugout when core services are down? Wouldn't a well stocked pantry and / or cold cellar be more appropriate? You don't have to leave your home with a backpack just because the supermarket is empty.
  - nvelty 5y ago
    It depends on the nature of the event and the area you live in. Preppers who plan on "bugging out" are usually concerned with local unrest following the loss of services. They would also (hopefully) already have a destination in mind rather simply going "innawoods". Provided you have a safe community, having a reasonable stockpile of basic supplies and neighbors you can trust, remaining in place is usually a better option. A firearm or two would also be advisable in either case.

crhutchins 5y ago

Think about those who are entrepreneurs that are solely dependent on internet connection. It's hard for them as this is their way of living.

emadabdulrahim 5y ago

I lived a similar experience back in Cairo during the Arab Spring. People had no internet access for over 10 days. It was their way of shutting down communication between people protesting on the streets and their family and friends. Needless to say, when that happened, I simply lived down in Tahrir square since my brother was already there and I had no other way of checking on him. Now that I'm in San Francisco, I can't tell you the libration I feel every single day by being able to do and say whatever I want. By being able to think, really think. Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it.

willk 5y ago
> Sadly though, a lot of Americans and especially people on the far left are not appreciative of the freedom of speech this country has, and continue to squander it. Can you expand on this? I’d like to understand your view better. How does the far left not appreciate it?
- zo1 5y ago
  Not OP. But from my perspective, there has been a huge amount of silencing of speech for non-Left or non-mainstream opinions. Not always in the form of raw censorship, but a weird kind of endorsement, repetition and tacit-acceptance by institutions of only Left-leaning views, and also fear and bully-like tactics that has the ultimate effect of people self-censoring if they happen to be outside of that seemingly-narrow and "Left"-leaning set of opinions. There are so many opinions that are downright foot-guns or taboos in any sort of public arena for example. And we don't even notice how we self-censor those opinions, nor do we notice it until we have those opinions/ideas and try to voice them. I'm relatively civil and polite on HN, but I don't dare repeat most of what I express here under my real identity.
- emadabdulrahim 5y ago
  The attack on comedians, the insistence on de-platforming folks that say anything outside the mainstream consensus. Cancel culture and the elevation of sensitivity. It's one thing for one to share their opinion "I don't like this, this is inappropriate", it's different when one is seeking power to shutdown the person they're disagreeing with. All of this makes people who have a different perspective, who might want to share their own personal experience that doesn't quite fit the narrative, to withhold and play it safe. Which ties back to freedom of speech. I've experienced this myself in my career in large SV tech companies. And my friends in Academia share similar stories and concerns.