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> It's not even interesting that the M1 is "slightly" beaten by a Mac Pro's Xeon, because _nobody is doing raytracing on CPUs._ This is backwards - Nearly all

> It's not even interesting that the M1 is "slightly" beaten by a Mac Pro's Xeon, because _nobody is doing raytracing on CPUs._ This is backwards - Nearly all major raytracing workloads today are done primarily on CPUs: vfx, animated film and tv, etc. There are several reasons for this, including memory limits and the lack of coherence in both path tracing algorithms and common acceleration structures. GPU-based tracing is currently a small subset of rendering tasks (primarily those with real-time requirements). As GPU memory increases, GPUs will become more attractive in this space - likely in the next few years.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
Final renders may be done on CPU for maximum accuracy, but that's not what is being discussed. What's being discussed is desktop workstation rendering. Mental Ray, heavily used in the industry for feature films: GPU accelerated since eleven years ago. Pixar licensed a bunch of GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015, so that's six years ago. Autodesk Arnold After Effects Chaos V-Ray Weta Gazebo and Manuka ...all GPU accelerated for three years or so.
- berkut 5y ago
  Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films: it hasn't been since ~2013 (when Arnold came around). After Effects doesn't really belong on this list? Gazebo is a preview renderer explicitly designed for GPU use, it's not designed for accurate lighting or material look. Manuka is not GPU accelerated (it used to be when first written, but it wasn't worth it given complexity of build setup for very little benefit, it's pure CPU now and has been for > 7 years). Until the GPU renderers can run custom shaders (rather than just the stock shaders the renderers ship with), i.e. OSL supports full GPU support, high end VFX facilities aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. Smaller facilities which are happy using the stock shaders are though.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    > Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films You didn't say "feature films", you said "film and TV." You're goalpost-shifting / no-true-scotsman'ing. > it hasn't been since ~2013 (when Arnold came around). The Arnold I mentioned that is GPU accelerated? Or a different Arnold? Just checking. > high end VFX facilities Again with the goalpost shifting / no-true-scotsman-ing > aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. They doing that rendering work on laptops? What is the article talking about? Server farm hardware? We're done here.
    - berkut 5y ago
      I think you're confusing me for the other poster - that was the first time I've responded to you... I haven't moved any goalposts. Arnold has only been GPU accelerated for a few years - not since 2013. Same with Renderman - XPU only came out this year, and still doesn't support everything on the GPU, including custom shaders (like Arnold GPU doesn't).
    - bhouston 5y ago
      > Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films Mental Ray really isn't used anywhere. It sort of died like more than a decade ago. Honestly, I used it back in 2003 in the VFX industry, but not since. You have to be mistaken here. No one uses Mental Ray that I have heard of in production in the last decade. Probably someone does, but not anyone serious. Autodesk doesn't even sell licenses of Mental Ray and I believe you will find it hard to buy them from NVIDIA as well: https://www.autodesk.com/products/mental-ray-standalone/overview https://www.autodesk.com/products/mental-ray-standalone/over... Are you thinking iRay? Still made by NVIDIA and uses GPU acceleration. The default renderer in Maya, 3DS Max is Arnold these days, others use V-Ray, RedShift, Octane, RenderMan, etc....
  - pixelpoet 5y ago
    > Until the GPU renderers can run custom shaders (rather than just the stock shaders the renderers ship with), i.e. OSL supports full GPU support, high end VFX facilities aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. Surprised no one has mentioned Redshift Renderer yet; GPU-based, supports out of core for both geo and textures, and OSL. Nevertheless, I agree that "nobody renders on CPU" is just patently false - one need only look at the Corona Renderer numbers to instantly disprove that.
- jb1991 5y ago
  > Pixar licensed a bunch of GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015, so that's six years ago. Pixar still primarily renders on the CPU. Only within the last year have they added a hybrid GPU option to the Renderman renderer.
  - hajile 5y ago
    Only since July of this year as I recall.
- ykl 5y ago
  Mental Ray is used by literally nobody anymore. It was discontinued in 2017. You can't even get a license for Mental Ray anymore. Pixar didn't license any particular special GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015; they're just using OptiX and CUDA like everyone else. Pixar released initial GPU support in RenderMan this year, but currently XPU only supports a subset of the full RenderMan functionality. Before that, the only GPU ray tracing they were using internally was on an extremely limited basis for early lookdev workflows. Final lookdev and all of lighting continues to be CPU-only. I likely know more about this particular usage than you do because... I worked on the early internal GPU ray tracing for lookdev stuff at Pixar. Autodesk Arnold has initial GPU support, but it was only added in the past few years. Most studio usage limits Arnold GPU usage to lookdev; most desktop workflows for iterating continue to be CPU because again... not enough memory on GPUs. SPI Arnold has no GPU support at all. Yes, there are two Arnolds out there. After Effects is not really used for high-end 3D rendering? Why is it on your list? Did you just do a Google search for "GPU renderer" and throw what you found into a list without actually understanding what each thing is? V-Ray has had extensive GPU support for many years now, and it probably leading the pack among usage in film/vfx/etc houses. However, most film/vfx/etc places use V-Ray CPU for both iterating on the desktop and for final frames, due to GPUs not having enough memory. V-Ray GPU has seen wide adoption in the archviz world though. Gazebo is an OpenGL viewer, used in DCC viewports. It's not even remotely close to a final frame renderer. Manuka does not have GPU support whatsoever; the Manuka development team literally published an entire ACM TOG paper on this topic which I guess you haven't checked. I'm not entirely sure how you put your list together; everything on here is either out of date, misunderstood, or just flat out wrong, and all in ways that are immediately apparent to those of us who actually work in this industry.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Final renders may be done on CPU for maximum accuracy, but that's not what is being discussed. What's being discussed is desktop workstation rendering. Mental Ray, heavily used in the industry for feature films: GPU accelerated since eleven years ago. Pixar licensed a bunch of GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015, so that's six years ago. Autodesk Arnold After Effects Chaos V-Ray Weta Gazebo and Manuka ...all GPU accelerated for three years or so.

berkut 5y ago
Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films: it hasn't been since ~2013 (when Arnold came around). After Effects doesn't really belong on this list? Gazebo is a preview renderer explicitly designed for GPU use, it's not designed for accurate lighting or material look. Manuka is not GPU accelerated (it used to be when first written, but it wasn't worth it given complexity of build setup for very little benefit, it's pure CPU now and has been for > 7 years). Until the GPU renderers can run custom shaders (rather than just the stock shaders the renderers ship with), i.e. OSL supports full GPU support, high end VFX facilities aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. Smaller facilities which are happy using the stock shaders are though.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  > Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films You didn't say "feature films", you said "film and TV." You're goalpost-shifting / no-true-scotsman'ing. > it hasn't been since ~2013 (when Arnold came around). The Arnold I mentioned that is GPU accelerated? Or a different Arnold? Just checking. > high end VFX facilities Again with the goalpost shifting / no-true-scotsman-ing > aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. They doing that rendering work on laptops? What is the article talking about? Server farm hardware? We're done here.
  - berkut 5y ago
    I think you're confusing me for the other poster - that was the first time I've responded to you... I haven't moved any goalposts. Arnold has only been GPU accelerated for a few years - not since 2013. Same with Renderman - XPU only came out this year, and still doesn't support everything on the GPU, including custom shaders (like Arnold GPU doesn't).
  - bhouston 5y ago
    > Mental ray is no longer heavily used in the industry for feature films Mental Ray really isn't used anywhere. It sort of died like more than a decade ago. Honestly, I used it back in 2003 in the VFX industry, but not since. You have to be mistaken here. No one uses Mental Ray that I have heard of in production in the last decade. Probably someone does, but not anyone serious. Autodesk doesn't even sell licenses of Mental Ray and I believe you will find it hard to buy them from NVIDIA as well: https://www.autodesk.com/products/mental-ray-standalone/overview https://www.autodesk.com/products/mental-ray-standalone/over... Are you thinking iRay? Still made by NVIDIA and uses GPU acceleration. The default renderer in Maya, 3DS Max is Arnold these days, others use V-Ray, RedShift, Octane, RenderMan, etc....
- pixelpoet 5y ago
  > Until the GPU renderers can run custom shaders (rather than just the stock shaders the renderers ship with), i.e. OSL supports full GPU support, high end VFX facilities aren't really using GPU renderers that much for final lookdev and lighting. Surprised no one has mentioned Redshift Renderer yet; GPU-based, supports out of core for both geo and textures, and OSL. Nevertheless, I agree that "nobody renders on CPU" is just patently false - one need only look at the Corona Renderer numbers to instantly disprove that.
jb1991 5y ago
> Pixar licensed a bunch of GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015, so that's six years ago. Pixar still primarily renders on the CPU. Only within the last year have they added a hybrid GPU option to the Renderman renderer.
- hajile 5y ago
  Only since July of this year as I recall.
ykl 5y ago
Mental Ray is used by literally nobody anymore. It was discontinued in 2017. You can't even get a license for Mental Ray anymore. Pixar didn't license any particular special GPU rendering tech from NVIDIA in 2015; they're just using OptiX and CUDA like everyone else. Pixar released initial GPU support in RenderMan this year, but currently XPU only supports a subset of the full RenderMan functionality. Before that, the only GPU ray tracing they were using internally was on an extremely limited basis for early lookdev workflows. Final lookdev and all of lighting continues to be CPU-only. I likely know more about this particular usage than you do because... I worked on the early internal GPU ray tracing for lookdev stuff at Pixar. Autodesk Arnold has initial GPU support, but it was only added in the past few years. Most studio usage limits Arnold GPU usage to lookdev; most desktop workflows for iterating continue to be CPU because again... not enough memory on GPUs. SPI Arnold has no GPU support at all. Yes, there are two Arnolds out there. After Effects is not really used for high-end 3D rendering? Why is it on your list? Did you just do a Google search for "GPU renderer" and throw what you found into a list without actually understanding what each thing is? V-Ray has had extensive GPU support for many years now, and it probably leading the pack among usage in film/vfx/etc houses. However, most film/vfx/etc places use V-Ray CPU for both iterating on the desktop and for final frames, due to GPUs not having enough memory. V-Ray GPU has seen wide adoption in the archviz world though. Gazebo is an OpenGL viewer, used in DCC viewports. It's not even remotely close to a final frame renderer. Manuka does not have GPU support whatsoever; the Manuka development team literally published an entire ACM TOG paper on this topic which I guess you haven't checked. I'm not entirely sure how you put your list together; everything on here is either out of date, misunderstood, or just flat out wrong, and all in ways that are immediately apparent to those of us who actually work in this industry.