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>A massive slice of talent and raw human resource is just dying every year, but the solutions that have worked in other countries are just impossible to impleme

>A massive slice of talent and raw human resource is just dying every year, but the solutions that have worked in other countries are just impossible to implement here due because the the methods that are known to work are politically dead on arrival. From the essay, it sounds like Jack was not possessed of any great "talent", or of any particular value as a "raw human resource". He was just a dude, probably easily replaceable from a HR perspective, and these are the sorts who, historically, we are willing to sacrifice in order to honorably lose a war on drugs. (If you want to know what kinds of sacrifices are required to win a war on opiates, Mao is the "best" recent example.) We live in a cruel economy, where the "losers" are left to find solace in electronic toys and mystery fentanyls sold as heroin. Mostly, the losers are determined ahead of time, and their numbers grow as the middle class shrinks. It's an inhumane system with inhumane outcomes built in. *I know I'm reading too much into your word choice, it's not meant as a personal attack, it's just useful as a jumping-off point for this post. If I were a better writer I would have figured out how to avoid this impression, but I'm not, so please take my word for it. I think you are basically right about the humane way to handle this.

wespiser_2018 5y ago
Sure, maybe one Jack isn't a big deal, but what about 1000 Jacks? How much economic output would 58,000 thousand early deaths be in a year where we have a labour shortage and a supply chain crisis on our hands? Jack might not be the best example of "raw human talent", but people like him contribute to the economy that are hard to measure, and of equal worth to anyone else. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't compare lives, but I guess we could compare economic value, and for the thousands in lost lives, even working the most menial jobs, that's still tremendous worth in a country where our birth rate is shrinking faster than ever.
Sebb767 5y ago
> From the essay, it sounds like Jack was not possessed of any great "talent", or of any particular value as a "raw human resource". He was just a dude, probably easily replaceable from a HR perspective, I've seen a lot of smart people fall to drugs. Sure, if they get in too deep too early, they won't have a degree when they die, but they could have had one. And yes, as an HR person in a comparatively small company, this person is easily replaceable. On a country scale, however, you can't simply replace him - you need the numbers of highly educated smart people and you can't simply "hire" them back from another country. Look at the stereotype of the asian genius - disregarding the other factors, China simply has 3-5 times [0] the population, so they will statistically have 5 times the geniuses to start with. You can't compete when your best bets have a 5% chance to whither away due to drugs. > If you want to know what kinds of sacrifices are required to win a war on opiates, Mao is the "best" recent example. How so? I don't know what specifically you're pointing to, but given that other countries handle the situation better with less "sacrifices", I don't think they're necessary. [0] Depending on US or EU perspective.
- skyechurch 5y ago
  >How so? He waged war like a war. I don't personally recommend waging wars on chemical compounds or the desperate predestined "losers" of the economy, but there's something to be said for winning a war with cruelty vs losing the war with half the cruelty. "It was the communist revolution that erased opium from mainland China. Mao Zedong , with his political apparatus that reached into every hamlet and home, was able to lay the beast low. He used a mixture of carrot and stick. Addicts were not condemned, but offered medical help and rehabilitation. But those who were unco-operative were sent to labour camps or imprisoned. Dealers were summarily executed, often without trial." [0] "Smart" people getting hooked on drugs is exactly as tragic as "losers" like Jack, any competition which ignores this is one we should be enormously proud to lose. [0] https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world
fenderbluesjr 5y ago
Do you have any good sources for info about Mao's approach? Very interested to learn more about this. The wikipedia article seems to corroborate what you have said but provides no sources either :(
- neartheplain 5y ago
  Mao's government compelled addicts into rehab and summarily executed drug dealers [0][1]. Drug trafficking is still a capital crime in the PRC. In 2017, 13 traffickers were sentenced to death at a public trial in front of 10,000 spectators [2]. [0] https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China#Under_Mao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China#Unde... [2] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3906319/china-drug-dealer-mass-execution-shanwei/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3906319/china-drug-dealer-mass...
Clubber 5y ago
>From the essay, it sounds like Jack was not possessed of any great "talent" ... probably easily replaceable from a HR perspective I think part of our problem is we put first value on people by their economic output. We need to realize there's more to being a person other than how much money you can make some rich dude.
arp242 5y ago
I am "not a genius, but not dumb either" much like Jack. But for one reason or the other I seem to have an aptitude for this whole programming thing, and technical stuff in general. Is that "talent"? I guess it's not "talent" in the wunderkind sort-of way, but it is "talent" in the sense of "a decent aptitude allowing me to perform better at these kind of tasks than average in the general population". I was never addicted to drugs, but for the first ~25 years I struggled in life in much the same way. No education, no real job, no real direction, future, or perspective, no real friends, no girlfriend, what's the point? I suppose my situation wasn't quite as hopeless, or maybe I'm just a different person, and it probably also helps that drugs usually just make me feel weird in a bad way and never enjoyed it much. Plus, I never stopped programming, or lost my interest in it. It just took a long time to scrape together the confidence to actually apply for jobs. For a time I was either jobless and programming stuff at home, or working minimal wage jobs and programming after work. At one place I managed to "hack" the computer used to scan barcodes and during night-shifts (with often hours of nothing to do) I would write some toy programs to pass the time (more fun than smoking weed outside like some of the other people were doing). I sometimes wonder what would have become of me if I hadn't learned programming as a young teenager, or had lost interest somewhere along the way. Either way, we'll likely never know what "talent" Jack did or did not posses as he never really seems to have developed any due to a combination of his personality, environment, and just "bad luck". Even the most talented and gifted programmers I know don't "just" do it automatically; they still need to apply themselves and develop their talent. For all you know you might have it in you to be a word-class guitar player, actor, soccer star, or some such. But if you've never played guitar, acted, played football, etc. and developed this talent then you'll never know.

wespiser_2018 5y ago

Sure, maybe one Jack isn't a big deal, but what about 1000 Jacks? How much economic output would 58,000 thousand early deaths be in a year where we have a labour shortage and a supply chain crisis on our hands? Jack might not be the best example of "raw human talent", but people like him contribute to the economy that are hard to measure, and of equal worth to anyone else. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't compare lives, but I guess we could compare economic value, and for the thousands in lost lives, even working the most menial jobs, that's still tremendous worth in a country where our birth rate is shrinking faster than ever.

Sebb767 5y ago

> From the essay, it sounds like Jack was not possessed of any great "talent", or of any particular value as a "raw human resource". He was just a dude, probably easily replaceable from a HR perspective, I've seen a lot of smart people fall to drugs. Sure, if they get in too deep too early, they won't have a degree when they die, but they could have had one. And yes, as an HR person in a comparatively small company, this person is easily replaceable. On a country scale, however, you can't simply replace him - you need the numbers of highly educated smart people and you can't simply "hire" them back from another country. Look at the stereotype of the asian genius - disregarding the other factors, China simply has 3-5 times [0] the population, so they will statistically have 5 times the geniuses to start with. You can't compete when your best bets have a 5% chance to whither away due to drugs. > If you want to know what kinds of sacrifices are required to win a war on opiates, Mao is the "best" recent example. How so? I don't know what specifically you're pointing to, but given that other countries handle the situation better with less "sacrifices", I don't think they're necessary. [0] Depending on US or EU perspective.

skyechurch 5y ago
>How so? He waged war like a war. I don't personally recommend waging wars on chemical compounds or the desperate predestined "losers" of the economy, but there's something to be said for winning a war with cruelty vs losing the war with half the cruelty. "It was the communist revolution that erased opium from mainland China. Mao Zedong , with his political apparatus that reached into every hamlet and home, was able to lay the beast low. He used a mixture of carrot and stick. Addicts were not condemned, but offered medical help and rehabilitation. But those who were unco-operative were sent to labour camps or imprisoned. Dealers were summarily executed, often without trial." [0] "Smart" people getting hooked on drugs is exactly as tragic as "losers" like Jack, any competition which ignores this is one we should be enormously proud to lose. [0] https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world

fenderbluesjr 5y ago

Do you have any good sources for info about Mao's approach? Very interested to learn more about this. The wikipedia article seems to corroborate what you have said but provides no sources either :(

neartheplain 5y ago
Mao's government compelled addicts into rehab and summarily executed drug dealers [0][1]. Drug trafficking is still a capital crime in the PRC. In 2017, 13 traffickers were sentenced to death at a public trial in front of 10,000 spectators [2]. [0] https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world https://www.scmp.com/article/547678/maos-drug-lesson-world [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China#Under_Mao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China#Unde... [2] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3906319/china-drug-dealer-mass-execution-shanwei/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3906319/china-drug-dealer-mass...

Clubber 5y ago

>From the essay, it sounds like Jack was not possessed of any great "talent" ... probably easily replaceable from a HR perspective I think part of our problem is we put first value on people by their economic output. We need to realize there's more to being a person other than how much money you can make some rich dude.

arp242 5y ago

I am "not a genius, but not dumb either" much like Jack. But for one reason or the other I seem to have an aptitude for this whole programming thing, and technical stuff in general. Is that "talent"? I guess it's not "talent" in the wunderkind sort-of way, but it is "talent" in the sense of "a decent aptitude allowing me to perform better at these kind of tasks than average in the general population". I was never addicted to drugs, but for the first ~25 years I struggled in life in much the same way. No education, no real job, no real direction, future, or perspective, no real friends, no girlfriend, what's the point? I suppose my situation wasn't quite as hopeless, or maybe I'm just a different person, and it probably also helps that drugs usually just make me feel weird in a bad way and never enjoyed it much. Plus, I never stopped programming, or lost my interest in it. It just took a long time to scrape together the confidence to actually apply for jobs. For a time I was either jobless and programming stuff at home, or working minimal wage jobs and programming after work. At one place I managed to "hack" the computer used to scan barcodes and during night-shifts (with often hours of nothing to do) I would write some toy programs to pass the time (more fun than smoking weed outside like some of the other people were doing). I sometimes wonder what would have become of me if I hadn't learned programming as a young teenager, or had lost interest somewhere along the way. Either way, we'll likely never know what "talent" Jack did or did not posses as he never really seems to have developed any due to a combination of his personality, environment, and just "bad luck". Even the most talented and gifted programmers I know don't "just" do it automatically; they still need to apply themselves and develop their talent. For all you know you might have it in you to be a word-class guitar player, actor, soccer star, or some such. But if you've never played guitar, acted, played football, etc. and developed this talent then you'll never know.