4 ms·

It's not popular here on Hacker News due to its libertarian bent, but I'm of the opinion that we should even more brutal to illegal drug production, trafficking

It's not popular here on Hacker News due to its libertarian bent, but I'm of the opinion that we should even more brutal to illegal drug production, trafficking, and selling than what we currently are. I've lost 2 friends to fentanyl poisoning in the last 3 years, and I lost my brother 10 years ago to chronic meth use. I'm so utterly sick of this.

nielsbot 5y ago
(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective. That said, I haven't lived your experience, so I can't really know what you're feeling...
- CincinnatiMan 5y ago
  >(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective. Is there really a way to show that if the war on drugs never existed, the same number of drug users would exist, thus making the war ineffective? I'm not sure how one would prove this. It seems possible that without the war on drugs, the impact of drugs could be even greater, but again, hard to prove that. Just an anecdote but in high school my entire reason for not smoking weed was because it was illegal, even though one of my friend groups was really into it.
  - nielsbot 5y ago
    You may be right but the downsides are large. I think the effects are knowable, but since it's a complex issue there's lots of ways to view the data. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana-cocaine-heroin-meth https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana...
giantg2 5y ago
I don't know, the current penalties can be pretty stiff already. You can also prosecute under both federal and state laws to stack the terms. They just don't care to do that in most cases.
suzzer99 5y ago
Sure would be nice if the Sacklers faced any consequences.
standardUser 5y ago
It's not popular because it's illogical in the face of all evidence. The highest incarceration rate in the world over several decades and seemingly endless funding for anti-drug efforts failed in every respect (but ruined countless lives in the process).
short12 5y ago
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/25/colombia-dairo-antonio-usuga-capture-drug-trade https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/25/colombia-dairo... Also see el Chapo. Did either of those high profile busts make one iota of difference? Did the price of cocaine change (hint, it did not) and I all but guarantee the same can be said for meth, heroin and fentanyl. They all cheap to produce and extremely easy to obtain while still being pretty cheap when it hits the streets
- MisterMower 5y ago
  Every user made a choice to use at some point. We need to find ways to make that choice more costly. Punish users. Make examples out of people. Give them long prison sentences. Have the Ad Council run anti-drug ads. If users are in prison, they can’t buy street drugs. If you destroy demand, you’ll crush the cartel’s bottom line. But that would end the nice gig the DEA, cartels, and drug addicted in this country have going on, so I’m not holding my breath.
  - zer0tonin 5y ago
    Your whole comment is so naive about the economics of drug trafficking but I think: > If users are in prison, they can’t buy street drugs. is really the ultimate cherry on top. Do you really think prison contraband is extinct?
    - MisterMower 5y ago
      Just to make sure I understand, you're saying it's just as easy to obtain drugs in prison as it is on the streets?
      - zer0tonin 5y ago
        Yes, or not much more difficult. This is a well studied subject: http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/31877/ http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/31877/
spoonjim 5y ago
I'm not sure that executing drug traffickers would have a strong impact on consumption, but I think it would a more just outcome nevertheless.

nielsbot 5y ago

(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective. That said, I haven't lived your experience, so I can't really know what you're feeling...

CincinnatiMan 5y ago
>(Not a libertarian) I get the sentiment, but it's been shown that the war on drugs approach is expensive and ineffective. Is there really a way to show that if the war on drugs never existed, the same number of drug users would exist, thus making the war ineffective? I'm not sure how one would prove this. It seems possible that without the war on drugs, the impact of drugs could be even greater, but again, hard to prove that. Just an anecdote but in high school my entire reason for not smoking weed was because it was illegal, even though one of my friend groups was really into it.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  You may be right but the downsides are large. I think the effects are knowable, but since it's a complex issue there's lots of ways to view the data. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana-cocaine-heroin-meth https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana...

giantg2 5y ago

I don't know, the current penalties can be pretty stiff already. You can also prosecute under both federal and state laws to stack the terms. They just don't care to do that in most cases.

suzzer99 5y ago

Sure would be nice if the Sacklers faced any consequences.

standardUser 5y ago

It's not popular because it's illogical in the face of all evidence. The highest incarceration rate in the world over several decades and seemingly endless funding for anti-drug efforts failed in every respect (but ruined countless lives in the process).

short12 5y ago

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/25/colombia-dairo-antonio-usuga-capture-drug-trade https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/25/colombia-dairo... Also see el Chapo. Did either of those high profile busts make one iota of difference? Did the price of cocaine change (hint, it did not) and I all but guarantee the same can be said for meth, heroin and fentanyl. They all cheap to produce and extremely easy to obtain while still being pretty cheap when it hits the streets

MisterMower 5y ago
Every user made a choice to use at some point. We need to find ways to make that choice more costly. Punish users. Make examples out of people. Give them long prison sentences. Have the Ad Council run anti-drug ads. If users are in prison, they can’t buy street drugs. If you destroy demand, you’ll crush the cartel’s bottom line. But that would end the nice gig the DEA, cartels, and drug addicted in this country have going on, so I’m not holding my breath.
- zer0tonin 5y ago
  Your whole comment is so naive about the economics of drug trafficking but I think: > If users are in prison, they can’t buy street drugs. is really the ultimate cherry on top. Do you really think prison contraband is extinct?
  - MisterMower 5y ago
    Just to make sure I understand, you're saying it's just as easy to obtain drugs in prison as it is on the streets?
    - zer0tonin 5y ago
      Yes, or not much more difficult. This is a well studied subject: http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/31877/ http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/31877/

spoonjim 5y ago

I'm not sure that executing drug traffickers would have a strong impact on consumption, but I think it would a more just outcome nevertheless.