6 ms·

Great writeup, I didn't know Carmack was involved to this extant. My opinion on this, completely irrespective of the actual terms and laws: Zenimax doesn't de

by xenihn 5y ago

Great writeup, I didn't know Carmack was involved to this extant. My opinion on this, completely irrespective of the actual terms and laws: Zenimax doesn't deserve anything. But anyone who funded the original Kickstarter does (I was not one of those people). Anyone who put $200+ into that Kickstarter deserved some sort of payout. I feel like, at the very least, they should get free Oculus headsets for life. It's hard to put a number on the total value created by that initial Kickstarter funding if it had been treated as an actual investment, but I'd be willing to bet that it's already in the billions, and will only grow.

GauntletWizard 5y ago
I mean, I got both the Dev Kit promised to me and they sent me a free production Oculus Rift when it launched, so I don't feel too cheated - But still disappointed by the Facebook sellout.
aresant 5y ago
With you on this. Someday maybe a collaborative DAO or similar model replaces Kickstarter if the SEC can sort their heads out and makes this a reality.
- xsmasher 5y ago
  There are platforms like Fig and Wefunder that do this sort of thing now.
kbenson 5y ago
> I feel like, at the very least, they should get free Oculus headsets for life. Is there something different about this kickstarter than most others? Did they offer ownership? Because it sounds like you think you bought something they don't think they sold. Just because you compliment my son on his lemonade stand and tell him you believe in him and buy a lemonade doesn't entitle you to a share of his eventual billion dollar lemonade empire.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  This seems optimistic.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Just add a bunch of caffeine and call it an energy drink. Add some snazzy graphics (hell just put the kid's face on it) and you've got an empire. Or forego the caffeine and add some seltzer, or add some alcohol, or or or. Empires await!
  - kbenson 5y ago
    Just gotta crack the whip as a dragon dad. ;) In all seriousness, it doesn't sound all that more far fetched than someone deciding they want to bring VR to the masses, starting a kickstarter, and then fast forward a few years and it's a large division of Facebook.
wccrawford 5y ago
I was one of those backers. We got the headset that we paid for, and we also got the next dev headset after that for free. I definitely feel like I got my money's worth from it. I then switched for a Vive for my first retail headset, but I've since switched to Quest 2. Even though it shouldn't be better, the wireless functionality and ability to play games without a computer make it better than the original Vive. I'll likely be upgrading to whatever is next in the Oculus lineup. I backed VR because I've always loved the idea of VR and AR, and desperately wanted it to take off. Palmer and Carmack did a great job of making that happen, and even though I don't like Palmer's politics, I'm very thankful that he got this ball rolling. If I had only gotten that first headset, I'd still feel like I totally got my money's worth. But the continued and increased presence of VR is the real payout for me. My wife also has a Quest 2 now and we often play multiplayer games together, like Walkabout Minigolf. It's just amazing.
modeless 5y ago
> Anyone who put $200+ into that Kickstarter deserved some sort of payout I agree but you'll have to blame the SEC for that. I'm sure Oculus and Kickstarter would have loved to sell equity to the public, and if they did then every backer would have made thousands of dollars on the deal. But the SEC's rules didn't allow equity crowdfunding at the time and they still impose limits that make it basically infeasible.
neartheplain 5y ago
I also funded the Kickstarter and received a DK1 (and DK2). I believe I was fairly compensated, and that demanding some unspecified extra payout would be excessive. If you want stock, buy stock, and deal with the added risk that true investment entails.
pavlov 5y ago
Would be awesome if every Apple product I ever purchased had been treated as an investment. The 2000 dual-CPU Power Mac G4 would be worth a million now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
paxys 5y ago
Every Kickstarter backer got exactly what they were promised (ranging from tshirts to dev kits, studio visits and more), and a bonus production headset on top, so I'm not sure where the question of deserving more comes from.

by xenihn 5y ago

GauntletWizard 5y ago

I mean, I got both the Dev Kit promised to me and they sent me a free production Oculus Rift when it launched, so I don't feel too cheated - But still disappointed by the Facebook sellout.

aresant 5y ago

With you on this. Someday maybe a collaborative DAO or similar model replaces Kickstarter if the SEC can sort their heads out and makes this a reality.

xsmasher 5y ago
There are platforms like Fig and Wefunder that do this sort of thing now.

kbenson 5y ago

> I feel like, at the very least, they should get free Oculus headsets for life. Is there something different about this kickstarter than most others? Did they offer ownership? Because it sounds like you think you bought something they don't think they sold. Just because you compliment my son on his lemonade stand and tell him you believe in him and buy a lemonade doesn't entitle you to a share of his eventual billion dollar lemonade empire.

jessaustin 5y ago
This seems optimistic.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Just add a bunch of caffeine and call it an energy drink. Add some snazzy graphics (hell just put the kid's face on it) and you've got an empire. Or forego the caffeine and add some seltzer, or add some alcohol, or or or. Empires await!
- kbenson 5y ago
  Just gotta crack the whip as a dragon dad. ;) In all seriousness, it doesn't sound all that more far fetched than someone deciding they want to bring VR to the masses, starting a kickstarter, and then fast forward a few years and it's a large division of Facebook.

wccrawford 5y ago

I was one of those backers. We got the headset that we paid for, and we also got the next dev headset after that for free. I definitely feel like I got my money's worth from it. I then switched for a Vive for my first retail headset, but I've since switched to Quest 2. Even though it shouldn't be better, the wireless functionality and ability to play games without a computer make it better than the original Vive. I'll likely be upgrading to whatever is next in the Oculus lineup. I backed VR because I've always loved the idea of VR and AR, and desperately wanted it to take off. Palmer and Carmack did a great job of making that happen, and even though I don't like Palmer's politics, I'm very thankful that he got this ball rolling. If I had only gotten that first headset, I'd still feel like I totally got my money's worth. But the continued and increased presence of VR is the real payout for me. My wife also has a Quest 2 now and we often play multiplayer games together, like Walkabout Minigolf. It's just amazing.

modeless 5y ago

> Anyone who put $200+ into that Kickstarter deserved some sort of payout I agree but you'll have to blame the SEC for that. I'm sure Oculus and Kickstarter would have loved to sell equity to the public, and if they did then every backer would have made thousands of dollars on the deal. But the SEC's rules didn't allow equity crowdfunding at the time and they still impose limits that make it basically infeasible.

neartheplain 5y ago

I also funded the Kickstarter and received a DK1 (and DK2). I believe I was fairly compensated, and that demanding some unspecified extra payout would be excessive. If you want stock, buy stock, and deal with the added risk that true investment entails.

pavlov 5y ago

Would be awesome if every Apple product I ever purchased had been treated as an investment. The 2000 dual-CPU Power Mac G4 would be worth a million now.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

paxys 5y ago

Every Kickstarter backer got exactly what they were promised (ranging from tshirts to dev kits, studio visits and more), and a bonus production headset on top, so I'm not sure where the question of deserving more comes from.