3 ms·

While I think the EFF's mission is a good one, I don't always like their tactics, which often resemble those of politicians or corporations. Here's a current e

While I think the EFF's mission is a good one, I don't always like their tactics, which often resemble those of politicians or corporations. Here's a current example [0]. The message is basically "don't scan our phones, respect our privacy". Sounds okay, but it has practically no details. Nothing about what exactly would be scanned, why it would be scanned the, how it would be scanned... nothing. Judging by most HN'ers conversations on the topic before, most would even support EFF's message on the issue! But look at their methods. They should be doing an information campaign. Instead, that reads as propaganda campaign. [0] https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-activists-lead-protest-demanding-apple-cancel-iphone-scanning-program-and-keep https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-activists-lead-protes...

whimsicalism 5y ago
More HN bikeshedding. Sloganeering is actually critical for mass movements for political change.
- dimitrios1 5y ago
  More improper use of a "gotcha". Perhaps those who consider themselves to be part of the educated class find sloganeering distasteful and thus contrary to the goals of the movement? After all, it's likely those part of the educated class that are going to do the real groundwork on these important matters of policy. Perhaps if it was a good slogan, it wouldn't need discussion. All of these are possibilities. How essential are slogans, in your view?
- criddell 5y ago
  Slogans are fine as long as the details are available somewhere for those that want to dig in.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    I feel like the linked article from GP has plenty of additional details linked. There is also plenty of media coverage on what they are discussing. I am confused what is perceived as actually missing and why that missing content is somehow an indict on EFF
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      It's their official press release, why are you defending them when they didn't even lay out the issue in their official press release? And sure, if you go through everything linked, you can piece together a fair bit of the story. It's a press release though-- as in something they want the press to pickup on and report on. The press isn't great at reporting on technical issues to begin with. Do you really think the EFF is doing a good job when it sprinkles the details over links to a half dozen other pages? Don't get me wrong, this isn't the way all of their stuff reads. But it happens from time to time,and I expect better from the EFF when a simple extra paragraph would do the job and they're an organization that I very much expect to do a better job at providing information than this.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Slogans? This wasn't a 5-second soundbite or a banner ad. Sure they should use slogans, but this was their official press release on the issue, and it was practically content-free. A few sentences would have been enough to outline the details of what's going on. Parkinson's Law doesn't really apply when pointing out hypocrisy.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> which often resemble those of politicians or corporations They are a corporation aren't they?
- yxhuvud 5y ago
  They are a foundation. So as far as my grasp of definitions go, no.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    A corporation is just a group of people authorised to act as a single legal entity. Charities, foundations, etc, are corporations. They're corporate.
    - yxhuvud 5y ago
      Actually looking into this, it seems like it depends on jurisdiction. What you are saying seems to be true in England and USA, but here in Sweden the definitions seems to exclude foundations, as they have neither members or owners, and therefore they are not a group of people.
scotuswroteus 5y ago
And maybe they should have thought about this inevitability when they did this: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/eff-apples-shareholders-meeting-statement-support https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/eff-apples-shareholder...
agucova 5y ago
Clearly it's meant to be a political campaign, not an informative post. That's exactly what I expect the EFF to do, and their technical content (which is separate) is also great.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  It's a press release. I expect a press release to lay out at least some of the details. If you're putting the EFF into the realm of just another political group though, then sure-- I'll learn to expect the same level of vague propaganda from them that we get from any Super PAC or politicians campaign and filter their noise out completely. Luckily, we're not there yet. A lot if their releases are fine, but some like this slip through.

whimsicalism 5y ago

More HN bikeshedding. Sloganeering is actually critical for mass movements for political change.

dimitrios1 5y ago
More improper use of a "gotcha". Perhaps those who consider themselves to be part of the educated class find sloganeering distasteful and thus contrary to the goals of the movement? After all, it's likely those part of the educated class that are going to do the real groundwork on these important matters of policy. Perhaps if it was a good slogan, it wouldn't need discussion. All of these are possibilities. How essential are slogans, in your view?
criddell 5y ago
Slogans are fine as long as the details are available somewhere for those that want to dig in.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  I feel like the linked article from GP has plenty of additional details linked. There is also plenty of media coverage on what they are discussing. I am confused what is perceived as actually missing and why that missing content is somehow an indict on EFF
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    It's their official press release, why are you defending them when they didn't even lay out the issue in their official press release? And sure, if you go through everything linked, you can piece together a fair bit of the story. It's a press release though-- as in something they want the press to pickup on and report on. The press isn't great at reporting on technical issues to begin with. Do you really think the EFF is doing a good job when it sprinkles the details over links to a half dozen other pages? Don't get me wrong, this isn't the way all of their stuff reads. But it happens from time to time,and I expect better from the EFF when a simple extra paragraph would do the job and they're an organization that I very much expect to do a better job at providing information than this.
ineedasername 5y ago
Slogans? This wasn't a 5-second soundbite or a banner ad. Sure they should use slogans, but this was their official press release on the issue, and it was practically content-free. A few sentences would have been enough to outline the details of what's going on. Parkinson's Law doesn't really apply when pointing out hypocrisy.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> which often resemble those of politicians or corporations They are a corporation aren't they?

yxhuvud 5y ago
They are a foundation. So as far as my grasp of definitions go, no.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  A corporation is just a group of people authorised to act as a single legal entity. Charities, foundations, etc, are corporations. They're corporate.
  - yxhuvud 5y ago
    Actually looking into this, it seems like it depends on jurisdiction. What you are saying seems to be true in England and USA, but here in Sweden the definitions seems to exclude foundations, as they have neither members or owners, and therefore they are not a group of people.

scotuswroteus 5y ago

And maybe they should have thought about this inevitability when they did this: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/eff-apples-shareholders-meeting-statement-support https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/eff-apples-shareholder...

agucova 5y ago

Clearly it's meant to be a political campaign, not an informative post. That's exactly what I expect the EFF to do, and their technical content (which is separate) is also great.

ineedasername 5y ago
It's a press release. I expect a press release to lay out at least some of the details. If you're putting the EFF into the realm of just another political group though, then sure-- I'll learn to expect the same level of vague propaganda from them that we get from any Super PAC or politicians campaign and filter their noise out completely. Luckily, we're not there yet. A lot if their releases are fine, but some like this slip through.