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>"I mean sure it's hyperbolic, but is it wrong in the context of the US?" A car is a car no matter which nation it is in. A car does not transfigure into a kil

>"I mean sure it's hyperbolic, but is it wrong in the context of the US?" A car is a car no matter which nation it is in. A car does not transfigure into a killing machine because it is in America. I understand what you are saying about road design in other nations. That tells me the car shouldn't be labeled as a killing machine since the road design bears the responsibility in this perspective. >"cars are only meant to be safe for their inhabitants" This is untrue, there exist safety features that benefit occupants and non-occupants alike.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago
> That tells me the car shouldn't be labeled as a killing machine since the road design bears the responsibility in this perspective. I hear you. This is why most mature traffic safety and transit advocacy is about encouraging infrastructure changes, encouraging even traffic enforcement, and trying to add sensible legislation around vehicular responsibility (like alcohol rules and the like). The problem is, car culture is a thing that exists in America (and many parts of the world of course), and that culture often actively embraces reckless acts like speeding, unsafe hauling, coal-rolling, or unsafe vehicle lifting. Car culture also often actively pushes back against efforts to make the roads safer like automated traffic enforcement or stricter licensing requirements, and leads to negative things like catcalling from cars. You don't have to take my word for it, just check out https://reddit.com/r/cars https://reddit.com/r/cars and look at the jokes and memes they say. I'm also willing to bet that the average subscriber of r/cars is a _safer_ driver than the average American driver because of their enthusiasm. > This is untrue, there exist safety features that benefit occupants and non-occupants alike. In theory. In practice, the numbers show that these safety features aren't enough.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >In theory. In practice, the numbers show that these safety features aren't enough. Where are the goalposts and what would be enough? That is not to say they aren't dangerous, but it seems the discussion would greatly benefit from some definitions and goals. Driving and walking both carry risks and both could be safer. Last year, 6,700 pedestrians were killed by vehicles, and pedestrian fatality rate was around 2 per billion miles driven. At what point are the deaths acceptable? https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians21#:~:text=The%20report%20projects%20the%20U.S.,increase%20from%201.9%20in%202019 https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians21#:~:text=The%20r....
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    Almost every country in this table [1] in Europe, and almost all developed countries, has fewer road deaths per 100k inhabitants / year than the US. The US is at 12.4 deaths / 100k inhabitants, up there with countries like Belize and Moldova. Germany and Span are at 3.7 deaths, Netherlands at 2 deaths, France at 5, Italy at 5.2, and even _Canada_ at 5.8. Even Canada has half the road deaths / 100k inhabitants as the US. Road deaths in the US are more similar to countries with a fraction of our GDP and development. Let's get near Canada, so maybe even 6 deaths / 100k inhabitants first before we stop the scrutiny on car violence. Those are the goals I'm willing to set. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

> That tells me the car shouldn't be labeled as a killing machine since the road design bears the responsibility in this perspective. I hear you. This is why most mature traffic safety and transit advocacy is about encouraging infrastructure changes, encouraging even traffic enforcement, and trying to add sensible legislation around vehicular responsibility (like alcohol rules and the like). The problem is, car culture is a thing that exists in America (and many parts of the world of course), and that culture often actively embraces reckless acts like speeding, unsafe hauling, coal-rolling, or unsafe vehicle lifting. Car culture also often actively pushes back against efforts to make the roads safer like automated traffic enforcement or stricter licensing requirements, and leads to negative things like catcalling from cars. You don't have to take my word for it, just check out https://reddit.com/r/cars https://reddit.com/r/cars and look at the jokes and memes they say. I'm also willing to bet that the average subscriber of r/cars is a _safer_ driver than the average American driver because of their enthusiasm. > This is untrue, there exist safety features that benefit occupants and non-occupants alike. In theory. In practice, the numbers show that these safety features aren't enough.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>In theory. In practice, the numbers show that these safety features aren't enough. Where are the goalposts and what would be enough? That is not to say they aren't dangerous, but it seems the discussion would greatly benefit from some definitions and goals. Driving and walking both carry risks and both could be safer. Last year, 6,700 pedestrians were killed by vehicles, and pedestrian fatality rate was around 2 per billion miles driven. At what point are the deaths acceptable? https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians21#:~:text=The%20report%20projects%20the%20U.S.,increase%20from%201.9%20in%202019 https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians21#:~:text=The%20r....
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  Almost every country in this table [1] in Europe, and almost all developed countries, has fewer road deaths per 100k inhabitants / year than the US. The US is at 12.4 deaths / 100k inhabitants, up there with countries like Belize and Moldova. Germany and Span are at 3.7 deaths, Netherlands at 2 deaths, France at 5, Italy at 5.2, and even _Canada_ at 5.8. Even Canada has half the road deaths / 100k inhabitants as the US. Road deaths in the US are more similar to countries with a fraction of our GDP and development. Let's get near Canada, so maybe even 6 deaths / 100k inhabitants first before we stop the scrutiny on car violence. Those are the goals I'm willing to set. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...