6 ms·

You cite the conviction of a couple "low-level" people who only trespassing, but there were certainly people who were violent. Multiple people died. They threat

You cite the conviction of a couple "low-level" people who only trespassing, but there were certainly people who were violent. Multiple people died. They threatened to kill the vice president and members of congress. If they weren't stopped, surely government officials would have died. It might be a strong word, but I don't think it is entirely unwarranted.

bingohbangoh 5y ago
The only pending legal charges and accusations are, at worst, the illegal parading. That's seriously it.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  "parading" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChLoiStjaZc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChLoiStjaZc
- kenjackson 5y ago
  This table shows arrests and charges worse than that: https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... Just on the first of 86 pages there are several worse than what you site.
- mminer237 5y ago
  That's just not true. Many have been charged with theft, disorderly conduct, assault, and obstruction of an official proceeding: https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... Most are understandably still pending.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The only pending legal charges and accusations are, at worst, the illegal parading. That's false. For one example (Zachary Jordan Alam), the charges are: Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Civil Disorder and Aiding and Abetting; Destruction of Government Property Exceeding $1,000; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding and Aiding and Abetting; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Building; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in Capitol There are lots more like that: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    Is this a case of Gell-Mann amnesia in where the commenters usually lament how the US judicial system is fucked up in overcharging to force a plea deal but in this case the litany of charges is convenient proof of the extreme dangerousness of the Jan 6th protesters?
    - tyingq 5y ago
      For me, I recognize that historical issue, but saying that the worst current charge is illegal parading is just patently untrue. There's even video proof of at least misdemeanor assault/theft/etc, so there's not much to debate. I do recognize there's plenty of room to argue whether it was an insurrection or not. I'd personally call it a riot.
      - Leparamour 5y ago
        >I'd personally call it a riot. In contrast to the 'mostly peaceful' BLM protests leading up the elections of 2020?
        tyingq 5y ago
        I assume some people were arrested for charges above and beyond illegal parading in (some of) those events as well.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Is this a case of Gell-Mann amnesia No. First, whether the charges are overcharged or not is irrelevant; the matter in debate was specifically the claim that the most serious charges alleged were illegal parading. Second your post relies on treating “the commenters” as a unitary entity; unless the specific commenters involved tended to argue that DoJ systematically overcharges, there would be no inconsistency even if the charges were offered to support the dangerousness of the insurgents rather than to rebut a false claim about the charges. Third nice demonstration of sealioning and gish galloping.
    - 5y ago
- kgermino 5y ago
  That's seriously a lie. There are a number of people charged (and some convicted after guilty pleas) of felonies such as assaulting police officers.
koolba 5y ago
> Multiple people died. The only person that died a non-natural cause death on that day was the unarmed woman shot by Capitol Police. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/trump-riot-death-medical-exainer/2021/04/07/53806608-97cf-11eb-a6d0-13d207aadb78_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/trump-rio... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-die...
- mminer237 5y ago
  Ah, I actually hadn't heard that update. My bad. Although technically Rosanne Boyland died of non-natural causes too.
  - benmmurphy 5y ago
    There are people claiming she was a victim of police violence as well. Though, considering there doesn't seem to be a serious investigation into this claim it is probably the realm of conspiracy theory. https://news-block.com/the-police-killed-her-three-more-eyewitnesses-who-were-later-arrested-speak-about-the-police-murder-of-protester-rosanne-boyland-on-january-6/ https://news-block.com/the-police-killed-her-three-more-eyew...
- djaque 5y ago
  Ummmm... Ashli Babbit was a QAnon conspiracy theorist who broke into the capital during the Jan. 6 insurrection. She was at the front of a mob trying to get into the Speaker's Lobby containing representatives sheltering in place. The mob was commanding the police to let them in and started chanting to break down the door. Police warned them multiple times. Instead, Babbit climbs through a window in front of a police officer with a gun pointed at her after being commanded to not enter. She got within feet of representatives (who... mind you the mob was screaming death threats about). There was no way to know if she had hidden weapons on her body, especially with others at the insurrection carrying assault rifles. Any reasonable person would say the shooting was justified doubly so with a mob of conspiracy theorists behind her ready to brutalize some politicians. Don't gaslight people by just calling her "unarmed" especially when QAnon is turning her into a martyr for their movement. It's fundamentally dishonest.
deleted 5y ago
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bingohbangoh 5y ago

The only pending legal charges and accusations are, at worst, the illegal parading. That's seriously it.

NikolaeVarius 5y ago
"parading" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChLoiStjaZc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChLoiStjaZc
kenjackson 5y ago
This table shows arrests and charges worse than that: https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... Just on the first of 86 pages there are several worse than what you site.
mminer237 5y ago
That's just not true. Many have been charged with theft, disorderly conduct, assault, and obstruction of an official proceeding: https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... Most are understandably still pending.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> The only pending legal charges and accusations are, at worst, the illegal parading. That's false. For one example (Zachary Jordan Alam), the charges are: Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon; Civil Disorder and Aiding and Abetting; Destruction of Government Property Exceeding $1,000; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding and Aiding and Abetting; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Building; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in Capitol There are lots more like that: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
- Leparamour 5y ago
  Is this a case of Gell-Mann amnesia in where the commenters usually lament how the US judicial system is fucked up in overcharging to force a plea deal but in this case the litany of charges is convenient proof of the extreme dangerousness of the Jan 6th protesters?
  - tyingq 5y ago
    For me, I recognize that historical issue, but saying that the worst current charge is illegal parading is just patently untrue. There's even video proof of at least misdemeanor assault/theft/etc, so there's not much to debate. I do recognize there's plenty of room to argue whether it was an insurrection or not. I'd personally call it a riot.
    - Leparamour 5y ago
      >I'd personally call it a riot. In contrast to the 'mostly peaceful' BLM protests leading up the elections of 2020?
      - tyingq 5y ago
        I assume some people were arrested for charges above and beyond illegal parading in (some of) those events as well.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Is this a case of Gell-Mann amnesia No. First, whether the charges are overcharged or not is irrelevant; the matter in debate was specifically the claim that the most serious charges alleged were illegal parading. Second your post relies on treating “the commenters” as a unitary entity; unless the specific commenters involved tended to argue that DoJ systematically overcharges, there would be no inconsistency even if the charges were offered to support the dangerousness of the insurgents rather than to rebut a false claim about the charges. Third nice demonstration of sealioning and gish galloping.
  - 5y ago
kgermino 5y ago
That's seriously a lie. There are a number of people charged (and some convicted after guilty pleas) of felonies such as assaulting police officers.

koolba 5y ago

> Multiple people died. The only person that died a non-natural cause death on that day was the unarmed woman shot by Capitol Police. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/trump-riot-death-medical-exainer/2021/04/07/53806608-97cf-11eb-a6d0-13d207aadb78_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/trump-rio... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-die...

mminer237 5y ago
Ah, I actually hadn't heard that update. My bad. Although technically Rosanne Boyland died of non-natural causes too.
- benmmurphy 5y ago
  There are people claiming she was a victim of police violence as well. Though, considering there doesn't seem to be a serious investigation into this claim it is probably the realm of conspiracy theory. https://news-block.com/the-police-killed-her-three-more-eyewitnesses-who-were-later-arrested-speak-about-the-police-murder-of-protester-rosanne-boyland-on-january-6/ https://news-block.com/the-police-killed-her-three-more-eyew...
djaque 5y ago
Ummmm... Ashli Babbit was a QAnon conspiracy theorist who broke into the capital during the Jan. 6 insurrection. She was at the front of a mob trying to get into the Speaker's Lobby containing representatives sheltering in place. The mob was commanding the police to let them in and started chanting to break down the door. Police warned them multiple times. Instead, Babbit climbs through a window in front of a police officer with a gun pointed at her after being commanded to not enter. She got within feet of representatives (who... mind you the mob was screaming death threats about). There was no way to know if she had hidden weapons on her body, especially with others at the insurrection carrying assault rifles. Any reasonable person would say the shooting was justified doubly so with a mob of conspiracy theorists behind her ready to brutalize some politicians. Don't gaslight people by just calling her "unarmed" especially when QAnon is turning her into a martyr for their movement. It's fundamentally dishonest.

deleted 5y ago

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