4 ms·

It's worth bearing in mind that just over the last few days we've seen Conservative MP's respond to genuine questions and being held to account over a recent vo

It's worth bearing in mind that just over the last few days we've seen Conservative MP's respond to genuine questions and being held to account over a recent vote (against preventing the dumping of untreated sewage) respond that this is anonymous abuse, would lead to another murder like that very sad death of David Amess, to try and shut down any scrutiny. Banning anonymous accounts is not to prevent harm, but it's being sold that way.

mcguire 5y ago
"...we've seen Conservative MP's respond to genuine questions and being held to account over a recent vote." The United States Congress uses anonymous voting to explicitly avoid that sort of thing.
- philjohn 5y ago
  Anonymous voting of your representatives should never be a thing - you need to know their record to see if their values align with yours when going to the ballot box.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  US Congress voting is not anonymous. You can lookup each members vote on every bill (though maybe there is a rare exception I'm unaware of).
  - mcguire 5y ago
    "All voting in Congress is a matter of public record. However, not all floor votes are roll call votes. There are voice votes (“aye” or “no”) and division or standing votes (where the presiding officer counts Members), and these types of votes do not indicate by name how a member voted." (https://www.senate.gov/legislative/HowTo/how_to_votes.htm https://www.senate.gov/legislative/HowTo/how_to_votes.htm) I am having a difficult time finding data on the number of roll-call votes vs. others; general descriptions go between "very often" and "the majority". "Very often, when a vote is called for passage of a particular bill, a voice vote is the usual procedure. Equally often, a bill is often declared "passed" even when the voices of a measure's supporters are not obviously louder. Also, a voice vote does not allow a member's constituents to know how he or she voted on a particular bill. If a clear-cut winner of a voice vote is not recognized, then a request for a recorded vote is made." (https://www.legion.org/legislative/thomas/17797/part-11-roll-call-votes-voice-votes-and-unanimous-consent https://www.legion.org/legislative/thomas/17797/part-11-roll...)
    - saghm 5y ago
      > Equally often, a bill is often declared "passed" even when the voices of a measure's supporters are not obviously louder. What actually determines whether stuck a vote passes then? Is there "real" voting behind the scenes that gives the real count, or is it just game of chicken where anyone can object to the determination if they're willing to be on the record as the naysayer?
      - mcguire 5y ago
        From what I remember, any of them can call for a "stand up and be counted" vote rather than the "by acclaim" vote, and some proportion of them can demand a roll-call vote, which is on the record (more than 1 but much less than 50%).
seoulmetro 5y ago
Censorship is always sold as milk and eggs. That is to say, censorship is never sold as censorship.

mcguire 5y ago

"...we've seen Conservative MP's respond to genuine questions and being held to account over a recent vote." The United States Congress uses anonymous voting to explicitly avoid that sort of thing.

philjohn 5y ago
Anonymous voting of your representatives should never be a thing - you need to know their record to see if their values align with yours when going to the ballot box.
wolverine876 5y ago
US Congress voting is not anonymous. You can lookup each members vote on every bill (though maybe there is a rare exception I'm unaware of).
- mcguire 5y ago
  "All voting in Congress is a matter of public record. However, not all floor votes are roll call votes. There are voice votes (“aye” or “no”) and division or standing votes (where the presiding officer counts Members), and these types of votes do not indicate by name how a member voted." (https://www.senate.gov/legislative/HowTo/how_to_votes.htm https://www.senate.gov/legislative/HowTo/how_to_votes.htm) I am having a difficult time finding data on the number of roll-call votes vs. others; general descriptions go between "very often" and "the majority". "Very often, when a vote is called for passage of a particular bill, a voice vote is the usual procedure. Equally often, a bill is often declared "passed" even when the voices of a measure's supporters are not obviously louder. Also, a voice vote does not allow a member's constituents to know how he or she voted on a particular bill. If a clear-cut winner of a voice vote is not recognized, then a request for a recorded vote is made." (https://www.legion.org/legislative/thomas/17797/part-11-roll-call-votes-voice-votes-and-unanimous-consent https://www.legion.org/legislative/thomas/17797/part-11-roll...)
  - saghm 5y ago
    > Equally often, a bill is often declared "passed" even when the voices of a measure's supporters are not obviously louder. What actually determines whether stuck a vote passes then? Is there "real" voting behind the scenes that gives the real count, or is it just game of chicken where anyone can object to the determination if they're willing to be on the record as the naysayer?
    - mcguire 5y ago
      From what I remember, any of them can call for a "stand up and be counted" vote rather than the "by acclaim" vote, and some proportion of them can demand a roll-call vote, which is on the record (more than 1 but much less than 50%).

seoulmetro 5y ago

Censorship is always sold as milk and eggs. That is to say, censorship is never sold as censorship.