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Feels like Microsoft knows Visual Studio's days are numbered and are just trying to drag their feel as much as possible. For certain legacy things there will a

Feels like Microsoft knows Visual Studio's days are numbered and are just trying to drag their feel as much as possible. For certain legacy things there will always be a "Visual Studio." Nobody has any interest in building a new environment for Windows Desktop application development for example. But for web, VSCode eats VS's lunch. It is more flexible, higher performance, with a better design. So when they force Asp.net/MVC core developers to use the inferior Windows only tool, they're just shooting themselves in the foot as far as .Net adoption goes. MSDN as a concept can stay around, but they have to start yesterday changing the thinking around it and instead of it being a "Visual Studio + Benefits" it is "Benefits + Services + Legacy Visual Studio." MSDN could include a half dozen premium VSCode extensions today, but they're stuck in this 1990s product thinking modality. Microsoft went "services, services, services" back in 2007, except the Developer Division and that has to change now. If they were service/benefit focused instead of product, they wouldn't even care about Rider existing and their goal would be to get "Rider + MSDN" subs because the value add would be high enough to justify it. Or heck release premium Rider extensions (identical to VSCode) that require MSDN (and or premium CLI-based functionality).

ripley12 5y ago
I get the impression that virtually everyone in Developer Division understands this - except senior leadership.
HideousKojima 5y ago
>Nobody has any interest in building a new environment for Windows Desktop application development for example. Rider has support for Avalonia UI and its designer, FYI. So there's definitely some interest, not sure how much.
alexfrydl 5y ago
Until I heard Visual Studio 2022 was coming out recently, I literally thought Microsoft had ceded the ecosystem in 2019. It's very surprising to hear it's the total opposite. I've been doing C# since .NET 1.0 and I can't imagine why anyone would use VS over Rider. Won't they just have to buy Resharper anyway?
- Someone1234 5y ago
  > Won't they just have to buy Resharper anyway? ReSharper's edge has mostly disappeared, and between that and the ongoing performance problems in medium-large solutions you're better off either using Rider or Visual Studio 22 + Intellicode + Roslynator. With Rider you're obviously getting all of R# with no performance issues, and with the VS22 + Intellicode + Roslynator you're getting like 85% of R# with much better performance characteristics.
keneda7 5y ago
As someone who uses VS at work primarily for C# API work (donetcore), would you suggest giving VSCode a try? I ask because I have heard really good things about it from our UI developers but I have not really heard much for or against it when it come to C# development.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  I've tried to use it for C# work, and while it is usable, you're still getting a subpar experience since not everything Visual Studio can do is offered by the dotnet CLI. I was arguing above for that to change, I wasn't suggesting that is the reality today. VSCode is great for CSS/JS/HTML/etc though, but unfortunately C#/Dotnet still remains VS.
  - keneda7 5y ago
    Good to know. Thank you very much for the response. I'll probably do some more research on VSCode in 6 months or so and see if this has changed at all.
    - smackeyacky 5y ago
      I switched to vscode for .net core development a couple of months ago. It took about a week to work out what cli commands replaced the visual studio gui. Now my main dev box is running debian, I don't miss visual studio at all and am more productive overall.

ripley12 5y ago

I get the impression that virtually everyone in Developer Division understands this - except senior leadership.

HideousKojima 5y ago

>Nobody has any interest in building a new environment for Windows Desktop application development for example. Rider has support for Avalonia UI and its designer, FYI. So there's definitely some interest, not sure how much.

alexfrydl 5y ago

Until I heard Visual Studio 2022 was coming out recently, I literally thought Microsoft had ceded the ecosystem in 2019. It's very surprising to hear it's the total opposite. I've been doing C# since .NET 1.0 and I can't imagine why anyone would use VS over Rider. Won't they just have to buy Resharper anyway?

Someone1234 5y ago
> Won't they just have to buy Resharper anyway? ReSharper's edge has mostly disappeared, and between that and the ongoing performance problems in medium-large solutions you're better off either using Rider or Visual Studio 22 + Intellicode + Roslynator. With Rider you're obviously getting all of R# with no performance issues, and with the VS22 + Intellicode + Roslynator you're getting like 85% of R# with much better performance characteristics.

keneda7 5y ago

As someone who uses VS at work primarily for C# API work (donetcore), would you suggest giving VSCode a try? I ask because I have heard really good things about it from our UI developers but I have not really heard much for or against it when it come to C# development.

Someone1234 5y ago
I've tried to use it for C# work, and while it is usable, you're still getting a subpar experience since not everything Visual Studio can do is offered by the dotnet CLI. I was arguing above for that to change, I wasn't suggesting that is the reality today. VSCode is great for CSS/JS/HTML/etc though, but unfortunately C#/Dotnet still remains VS.
- keneda7 5y ago
  Good to know. Thank you very much for the response. I'll probably do some more research on VSCode in 6 months or so and see if this has changed at all.
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    I switched to vscode for .net core development a couple of months ago. It took about a week to work out what cli commands replaced the visual studio gui. Now my main dev box is running debian, I don't miss visual studio at all and am more productive overall.