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> So that we don't give away features to Rider? Rider's a really good .NET IDE - it's my preference by far over VS Code, and over VS as well - but it's exactly

> So that we don't give away features to Rider? Rider's a really good .NET IDE - it's my preference by far over VS Code, and over VS as well - but it's exactly the kind of thing an 'open' .NET ecosystem should be embracing. If this is the MS management mindset (and I don't find it that hard to believe), then .NET is never going to be truly open. edit: the bugginess of OmniSharp + VS Code for .NET development doesn't work to push me towards VS. VS is okay for the most part on Windows, much worse on Mac and not an option at all on Linux. It 100% pushed me away from VS Code and towards JetBrains - now I use Rider, PyCharm, and PHPStorm instead of VS Code.

andix 5y ago
Microsoft could make a fast and responsive version of visual studio, then we would probably use it. But right now rider is mostly better and much cheaper.
- ShaneMcGowan 5y ago
  Even on high spec machines, visual studio feels so clunky and slow. Haven't used Rider but Intellij for Java development is a dream compared to visual studio for .NET development
  - bigtex 5y ago
    I use Rider in a Windows VM and it is night and day compared to VS 2019 in regard to speed.
  - andix 5y ago
    Input latency That’s the thing that makes Visual Studio so annoying. Even typing is slow. A lot of other stuff too.
  - minimaul 5y ago
    It's really noticeable, and a lot worse than it used to be. My dev desktop is a 5800X with 64G of RAM and a nice samsung m.2 SSD. VS feels slow on it. Rider doesn't. VS Code doesn't.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - polskibus 5y ago
      Especially for large solutions (in terms of .NET development) , VS Code seems much slower than Rider.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  How can it be much cheaper when some Windows SDKs require VS anyway.
  - minimaul 5y ago
    If you don't need anything that is VS dependent, it works. eg Most .net code I write is for .net core and will eventually run on Linux. Rider is great for this. Cheaper than a version of VS that actually has the features you'd want, faster, works cross-platform.
  - andix 5y ago
    I don’t know which SDKs require visual studio, but if you don’t use them, you don’t need it ;)
  - LadyCailin 5y ago
    The build tools are available for free, in their entirety, I thought. What’s missing from those? (Besides the VS program itself)
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Everything else that comes on Professional and Enterprise VS for architecture, SDKs for SQL Server, SharePoint, Dynamic, debugging tools for IIS integration, mixed mode debugging with C++/CLI, COM, UWP, regular C++, code testing with coverage on the background, Assembly view for JIT code,.....
lostmsu 5y ago
I think Visual Studio is still miles ahead of Rider in terms of debugging experience. Also, I don't think JetBrains is not that active in developing C# the language.
- azth 5y ago
  Could you elaborate on what VS does better? I haven't used the former in detail for C#.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    Hm, it looks like I might need to reevaluate that. Edit-and-continue and the analogue of Set next statement have been implemented some time in 2019. Not sure if they are on par with VS though. Crucial for me right now is mixed-mode debugging support where you can do C++ and .NET in one app, but for most people it is irrelevant. Once this project is done, might try Rider again.
RattleyCooper 5y ago
VS Code is totally available on linux. In fact, it even works on my raspberry pi 4 with an ARM processor
eyegor 5y ago
Has anyone here tried to use rider for WPF/WinForms development? Last time I tried it out there was effectively no support for it since all it gave you was a text editor.
- unsignedint 5y ago
  I've used it. Yes, it has a GUI editor for those.
- to11mtm 5y ago
  I've done some substantial refactoring to a WPF app via Rider. I could at least consistently get a static -preview- of my WPF component/layout but the drag/drop, IDK how to even get it to work. However, at least for WPF the editor was snappy enough (compared to the way VS XAML editor behaves anyway) that I've gotten used to just writing XAML by hand anyway.

andix 5y ago

Microsoft could make a fast and responsive version of visual studio, then we would probably use it. But right now rider is mostly better and much cheaper.

ShaneMcGowan 5y ago
Even on high spec machines, visual studio feels so clunky and slow. Haven't used Rider but Intellij for Java development is a dream compared to visual studio for .NET development
- bigtex 5y ago
  I use Rider in a Windows VM and it is night and day compared to VS 2019 in regard to speed.
- andix 5y ago
  Input latency That’s the thing that makes Visual Studio so annoying. Even typing is slow. A lot of other stuff too.
- minimaul 5y ago
  It's really noticeable, and a lot worse than it used to be. My dev desktop is a 5800X with 64G of RAM and a nice samsung m.2 SSD. VS feels slow on it. Rider doesn't. VS Code doesn't.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - polskibus 5y ago
    Especially for large solutions (in terms of .NET development) , VS Code seems much slower than Rider.
pjmlp 5y ago
How can it be much cheaper when some Windows SDKs require VS anyway.
- minimaul 5y ago
  If you don't need anything that is VS dependent, it works. eg Most .net code I write is for .net core and will eventually run on Linux. Rider is great for this. Cheaper than a version of VS that actually has the features you'd want, faster, works cross-platform.
- andix 5y ago
  I don’t know which SDKs require visual studio, but if you don’t use them, you don’t need it ;)
- LadyCailin 5y ago
  The build tools are available for free, in their entirety, I thought. What’s missing from those? (Besides the VS program itself)
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Everything else that comes on Professional and Enterprise VS for architecture, SDKs for SQL Server, SharePoint, Dynamic, debugging tools for IIS integration, mixed mode debugging with C++/CLI, COM, UWP, regular C++, code testing with coverage on the background, Assembly view for JIT code,.....

lostmsu 5y ago

I think Visual Studio is still miles ahead of Rider in terms of debugging experience. Also, I don't think JetBrains is not that active in developing C# the language.

azth 5y ago
Could you elaborate on what VS does better? I haven't used the former in detail for C#.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Hm, it looks like I might need to reevaluate that. Edit-and-continue and the analogue of Set next statement have been implemented some time in 2019. Not sure if they are on par with VS though. Crucial for me right now is mixed-mode debugging support where you can do C++ and .NET in one app, but for most people it is irrelevant. Once this project is done, might try Rider again.

RattleyCooper 5y ago

VS Code is totally available on linux. In fact, it even works on my raspberry pi 4 with an ARM processor

eyegor 5y ago

Has anyone here tried to use rider for WPF/WinForms development? Last time I tried it out there was effectively no support for it since all it gave you was a text editor.

unsignedint 5y ago
I've used it. Yes, it has a GUI editor for those.
to11mtm 5y ago
I've done some substantial refactoring to a WPF app via Rider. I could at least consistently get a static -preview- of my WPF component/layout but the drag/drop, IDK how to even get it to work. However, at least for WPF the editor was snappy enough (compared to the way VS XAML editor behaves anyway) that I've gotten used to just writing XAML by hand anyway.