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> I don't expect the M1 Pro to have very good double-precision GPU-speeds. Compared to what? There are no laptops quite like these new Apple laptops. Anything

> I don't expect the M1 Pro to have very good double-precision GPU-speeds. Compared to what? There are no laptops quite like these new Apple laptops. Anything with faster graphics also uses LOADS more power and runs WAY hotter.

dragontamer 5y ago
> Compared to what? There are no laptops quite like these new Apple laptops. Anything with faster graphics also uses LOADS more power and runs WAY hotter. Using 2x the power for 2x the bandwidth (on top of significantly more compute power) is a good tradeoff, when the NVidia chip is 8nm Samsung vs Apple's 5nm TSMC. In any case, the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro. The benchmarks show that the chip has potential, but games need to come to the system first before Apple can decidedly claim a victory.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  > the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro Well, no. The emulated x86 gaming performance is. They didn't test a game with a native version.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    > They didn't test a game with a native version. If the native version doesn't exist then... gamers don't care? Gotta get those games ported over
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      Have you seen how terrible the x86 emulated performance is on a Surface Pro X? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        And that's why gamers are buying the Surface Book instead? The "gamer" community (or really, community-of-communities) only cares if their particular game runs quickly on a particular platform. Gamers don't really care about the advanced technology details, aside from the underlying "which system will run my game faster, with higher-quality images" (4k / raytracing / etc. etc.)?
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        No, that's why having x86 emulation performance be this good is a minor miracle. Native performance would be expected to be inline with what the benchmarks are showing. The MacBook Pro Max would beat the 100 watt mobile variant of the 3080, especially if you unplug both laptops from the wall where the 3080 has to throttle down and the MacBook does not.
        dragontamer 5y ago
        > No, that's why having x86 emulation performance be this good is a minor miracle. No gamer is going to pay $3000+ for a laptop with emulation when $2000+ gamer laptops are faster at the task (aka: video games are faster on the $2000 laptop). ------ Look, gamers don't care about all games. They only care about that one or two games that they play. If you want to attract Call of Duty players, you need to port Call-of-Duty over to the Mac, native, so that the game actually runs faster on the system. It doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing deal. Emulation is probably good enough for casuals / non-gamers who maybe put in 20 hours or less into any particular game. But anyone putting 100-hours or more into a game will probably want the better experience.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        > No gamer is going to pay $3000+ for a laptop with emulation They pay $3000 for a laptop whose fans hit 55 decibels at load and that has to throttle way down slower than the MacBook if you use it like a laptop and go somewhere without a power outlet. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16928/the-msi-ge76-raider-review-tiger-lake-plus-ampere-equals-framerate/7 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16928/the-msi-ge76-raider-rev...
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      > If the native version doesn't exist then... gamers don't care? I don't think it's a fair assessment of the machine capabilities. Also, games WILL be ported to the platform AND if you really need your games running at full speed, you can keep the current computer and postpone the purchase of your Mac until the games you need are available.
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        No. Next-generation games will be made on the platform. Current-generation and last-generation games no longer have much support / developers, and no sane company will spend precious developer time porting over a year-old or 5-year-old game to a new platform in the hopes of a slim set of sales. (Except maybe Skyrim. Apparently those ports keep making money) Your typical game studio doesn't work on Skyrim though. They put in a bunch of developer work into a game, then by the time the game is released, all the developers are on a new project.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  > the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro This is a workstation. For games one should look for a Playstation ;-) 2x power also means half the battery life. Remember this is a portable computer that's thin and light beyond what would be reasonable considering its performance. Also, remember the GPU has full 400GBps access to all of the RAM, which means models of up to 64GB won't need to pass over the PCIe bus.
  - Siira 5y ago
    (The GPU probably can’t saturate the 400GPps.)

dragontamer 5y ago

> Compared to what? There are no laptops quite like these new Apple laptops. Anything with faster graphics also uses LOADS more power and runs WAY hotter. Using 2x the power for 2x the bandwidth (on top of significantly more compute power) is a good tradeoff, when the NVidia chip is 8nm Samsung vs Apple's 5nm TSMC. In any case, the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro. The benchmarks show that the chip has potential, but games need to come to the system first before Apple can decidedly claim a victory.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro Well, no. The emulated x86 gaming performance is. They didn't test a game with a native version.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > They didn't test a game with a native version. If the native version doesn't exist then... gamers don't care? Gotta get those games ported over
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    Have you seen how terrible the x86 emulated performance is on a Surface Pro X? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      And that's why gamers are buying the Surface Book instead? The "gamer" community (or really, community-of-communities) only cares if their particular game runs quickly on a particular platform. Gamers don't really care about the advanced technology details, aside from the underlying "which system will run my game faster, with higher-quality images" (4k / raytracing / etc. etc.)?
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        No, that's why having x86 emulation performance be this good is a minor miracle. Native performance would be expected to be inline with what the benchmarks are showing. The MacBook Pro Max would beat the 100 watt mobile variant of the 3080, especially if you unplug both laptops from the wall where the 3080 has to throttle down and the MacBook does not.
        dragontamer 5y ago
        > No, that's why having x86 emulation performance be this good is a minor miracle. No gamer is going to pay $3000+ for a laptop with emulation when $2000+ gamer laptops are faster at the task (aka: video games are faster on the $2000 laptop). ------ Look, gamers don't care about all games. They only care about that one or two games that they play. If you want to attract Call of Duty players, you need to port Call-of-Duty over to the Mac, native, so that the game actually runs faster on the system. It doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing deal. Emulation is probably good enough for casuals / non-gamers who maybe put in 20 hours or less into any particular game. But anyone putting 100-hours or more into a game will probably want the better experience.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        > No gamer is going to pay $3000+ for a laptop with emulation They pay $3000 for a laptop whose fans hit 55 decibels at load and that has to throttle way down slower than the MacBook if you use it like a laptop and go somewhere without a power outlet. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16928/the-msi-ge76-raider-review-tiger-lake-plus-ampere-equals-framerate/7 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16928/the-msi-ge76-raider-rev...
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    > If the native version doesn't exist then... gamers don't care? I don't think it's a fair assessment of the machine capabilities. Also, games WILL be ported to the platform AND if you really need your games running at full speed, you can keep the current computer and postpone the purchase of your Mac until the games you need are available.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      No. Next-generation games will be made on the platform. Current-generation and last-generation games no longer have much support / developers, and no sane company will spend precious developer time porting over a year-old or 5-year-old game to a new platform in the hopes of a slim set of sales. (Except maybe Skyrim. Apparently those ports keep making money) Your typical game studio doesn't work on Skyrim though. They put in a bunch of developer work into a game, then by the time the game is released, all the developers are on a new project.
rbanffy 5y ago
> the actual video game performance is much much worse on the M1 Pro This is a workstation. For games one should look for a Playstation ;-) 2x power also means half the battery life. Remember this is a portable computer that's thin and light beyond what would be reasonable considering its performance. Also, remember the GPU has full 400GBps access to all of the RAM, which means models of up to 64GB won't need to pass over the PCIe bus.
- Siira 5y ago
  (The GPU probably can’t saturate the 400GPps.)