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I actually like the throwback, personally. I'm guessing they did that to differentiate it in the market. What I have trouble getting over is the flipping notch

I actually like the throwback, personally. I'm guessing they did that to differentiate it in the market. What I have trouble getting over is the flipping notch to the top. Just why. The bezel on my 2019 macbook looks the same, if not skinnier. Do people really not watch fullscreen videos anymore or something?

Hamuko 5y ago
>Do people really not watch fullscreen videos anymore or something? How many of the videos you watch are taller than 16:10? Are any of them even taller than 16:9?
- aidenn0 5y ago
  ... All 4:3 videos are taller than 16:9 certainly, and there's a non-trivial number of those.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    Absolutely. I run into this all the time with my phone's screen (likely a different ratio, but I almost never have it not cover video. If there's a program that will literally add black padding until the notch goes away I'd probably use it, at least when watching media.
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      Reports are the OS already does this for you when watching fullscreen media. Apparently Apple still has some design sense after all.
    - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
      There is. It's called macOs. The screen is 16:10 and then the menu bar, with the notch is extra space on top of that. I can't even be frustrated with you. This is so humanity. "I hate what they did! If only they had done this instead!" They did do that. They talk about that a lot. The article talks about that. They solved the problem in a way so obvious that it's what random people on the internet come up with, but of course the same random people on the internet are so convinced of their own superiority and so sure of Apple's inferiority and also unable to read TFA.
      - spicybright 5y ago
        I'm not saying apple is inferior and everyone else is wrong. I'm saying that for my own individual workflow, on my current macbook, this is a bad compromise. I keep a large amount of tools/macros/shortcuts in my status bar, and this will cut through the middle of that. I'd rather have thin black bars around my 16:10 video then lose that screen real estate for the status bar. It is a bad compromise for how I use my current macbook. I'm certainly in the minority, and that's fine, but I'm just trying to argue my side and understand other people's, not scream till I'm red in the face until I get my way.
        lowbloodsugar 5y ago
        Well, I couldn't find a setting to drop the menu into the 16:10 area, but the notch really doesn't take up much space, at least on the 16" screen. I haven't found an app that has enough menus to hit it yet. IntelliJ had the most. So if you are actually considering dropping $3k on a laptop soon, then I'd say go to an Apple store and check it out.
xattt 5y ago
I’m wondering whether the notch was supposed to be for Face ID, but they couldn’t make it work due to current supply chain constraints, and that notched displays were already ordered.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  It already had a front-facing camera, of course. Does a camera for Face ID require a bigger notch/bigger area? (Real question, I don't know!)
  - markus92 5y ago
    Face ID has a separate IR camera and a 3d IR dot array, so can imagine it requires a bit more space than a regular webcam.
- yojo 5y ago
  It could also be they planned it this way and will add it to next year’s model. That way they can advertise new “must-have” features for upgraders without redesigning the case/OS
hbn 5y ago
> Do people really not watch fullscreen videos anymore or something? In fullscreen, it puts a black bar at the top and the display becomes 16:10 I don't see the big deal. I'm looking at my 2019 16-inch MBP right now and it looks about the size of the notch from what I've seen. The camera has to go somewhere, and this solution just pushes up the menu bar to the sides of the camera instead of taking up part of the 16:10 section beneath it.
electric_bike 5y ago
You should look into the actual implementation of the notch and I think you'll be pleased! Imagine the exact same screen as your 2019 macbook pro, but instead of black bezel on the left and the right of the camera, you have the menu bar instead. Everything beneath the notch is the same size as the screen on previous laptops, so the notch allows for extra space beyond the 16x10 that you're used to. This means when not using fullscreen apps, you gain some screen real-estate because the menu bar now has dedicated space for it. However, when you're doing something fullscreen (like watching a video) the screen on either side of the notch is blacked out so you're left with a standard sized screen for viewing your content (with no visible notch). It seems like a win-win. I much prefer this implementation to what they did on the iPhone with the notch cutting into fullscreen images and videos. The only downside I can see is if you have a light colored menu bar or background and don't like the look of it when not fullscreen, however my menubar is always black anyways so I don't see that being an issue at all.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Aside from me thinking it's visually distracting, I get the argument, but if I was really concerned with screen space I'd just get a model with a bigger screen. For my own workflow, I use almost the whole top bar for tool/automation shortcuts, so this is cutting a chunk of my space for such a tiny amount of space added. Right now it's hanging past the left side of my webcam. If it does black out the notch for videos though, then that's a lot better, ty for that info. Does keeping the top bar black essentially hide the bezel? Or does it just make it not stand out as much?
  - electric_bike 5y ago
    > For my own workflow, I use almost the whole top bar for tool/automation shortcuts, so this is cutting a chunk of my space for such a tiny amount of space added. Yeah I can see how that would be an issue. I think I remember reading that the menu icons would be truncated when there are too many of them, but who knows how that actually works in practice (ie. are they scrollable, or is there an additional menu that you can open). > Does keeping the top bar black essentially hide the bezel? Or does it just make it not stand out as much? I'm not entirely sure to be honest. Based on the reviews I've seen when the top is blacked out for a video the notch is basically invisible. So I assume if you have a black menu bar it would be similar to that. That's just based on pictures on the internet though so I'm not actually sure how visible it will be in person.

Hamuko 5y ago

>Do people really not watch fullscreen videos anymore or something? How many of the videos you watch are taller than 16:10? Are any of them even taller than 16:9?

aidenn0 5y ago
... All 4:3 videos are taller than 16:9 certainly, and there's a non-trivial number of those.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Absolutely. I run into this all the time with my phone's screen (likely a different ratio, but I almost never have it not cover video. If there's a program that will literally add black padding until the notch goes away I'd probably use it, at least when watching media.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    Reports are the OS already does this for you when watching fullscreen media. Apparently Apple still has some design sense after all.
  - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
    There is. It's called macOs. The screen is 16:10 and then the menu bar, with the notch is extra space on top of that. I can't even be frustrated with you. This is so humanity. "I hate what they did! If only they had done this instead!" They did do that. They talk about that a lot. The article talks about that. They solved the problem in a way so obvious that it's what random people on the internet come up with, but of course the same random people on the internet are so convinced of their own superiority and so sure of Apple's inferiority and also unable to read TFA.
    - spicybright 5y ago
      I'm not saying apple is inferior and everyone else is wrong. I'm saying that for my own individual workflow, on my current macbook, this is a bad compromise. I keep a large amount of tools/macros/shortcuts in my status bar, and this will cut through the middle of that. I'd rather have thin black bars around my 16:10 video then lose that screen real estate for the status bar. It is a bad compromise for how I use my current macbook. I'm certainly in the minority, and that's fine, but I'm just trying to argue my side and understand other people's, not scream till I'm red in the face until I get my way.
      - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
        Well, I couldn't find a setting to drop the menu into the 16:10 area, but the notch really doesn't take up much space, at least on the 16" screen. I haven't found an app that has enough menus to hit it yet. IntelliJ had the most. So if you are actually considering dropping $3k on a laptop soon, then I'd say go to an Apple store and check it out.

xattt 5y ago

I’m wondering whether the notch was supposed to be for Face ID, but they couldn’t make it work due to current supply chain constraints, and that notched displays were already ordered.

jrochkind1 5y ago
It already had a front-facing camera, of course. Does a camera for Face ID require a bigger notch/bigger area? (Real question, I don't know!)
- markus92 5y ago
  Face ID has a separate IR camera and a 3d IR dot array, so can imagine it requires a bit more space than a regular webcam.
yojo 5y ago
It could also be they planned it this way and will add it to next year’s model. That way they can advertise new “must-have” features for upgraders without redesigning the case/OS

hbn 5y ago

> Do people really not watch fullscreen videos anymore or something? In fullscreen, it puts a black bar at the top and the display becomes 16:10 I don't see the big deal. I'm looking at my 2019 16-inch MBP right now and it looks about the size of the notch from what I've seen. The camera has to go somewhere, and this solution just pushes up the menu bar to the sides of the camera instead of taking up part of the 16:10 section beneath it.

electric_bike 5y ago

You should look into the actual implementation of the notch and I think you'll be pleased! Imagine the exact same screen as your 2019 macbook pro, but instead of black bezel on the left and the right of the camera, you have the menu bar instead. Everything beneath the notch is the same size as the screen on previous laptops, so the notch allows for extra space beyond the 16x10 that you're used to. This means when not using fullscreen apps, you gain some screen real-estate because the menu bar now has dedicated space for it. However, when you're doing something fullscreen (like watching a video) the screen on either side of the notch is blacked out so you're left with a standard sized screen for viewing your content (with no visible notch). It seems like a win-win. I much prefer this implementation to what they did on the iPhone with the notch cutting into fullscreen images and videos. The only downside I can see is if you have a light colored menu bar or background and don't like the look of it when not fullscreen, however my menubar is always black anyways so I don't see that being an issue at all.

spicybright 5y ago
Aside from me thinking it's visually distracting, I get the argument, but if I was really concerned with screen space I'd just get a model with a bigger screen. For my own workflow, I use almost the whole top bar for tool/automation shortcuts, so this is cutting a chunk of my space for such a tiny amount of space added. Right now it's hanging past the left side of my webcam. If it does black out the notch for videos though, then that's a lot better, ty for that info. Does keeping the top bar black essentially hide the bezel? Or does it just make it not stand out as much?
- electric_bike 5y ago
  > For my own workflow, I use almost the whole top bar for tool/automation shortcuts, so this is cutting a chunk of my space for such a tiny amount of space added. Yeah I can see how that would be an issue. I think I remember reading that the menu icons would be truncated when there are too many of them, but who knows how that actually works in practice (ie. are they scrollable, or is there an additional menu that you can open). > Does keeping the top bar black essentially hide the bezel? Or does it just make it not stand out as much? I'm not entirely sure to be honest. Based on the reviews I've seen when the top is blacked out for a video the notch is basically invisible. So I assume if you have a black menu bar it would be similar to that. That's just based on pictures on the internet though so I'm not actually sure how visible it will be in person.