4 ms·

Both cars and guns provide a concrete tangible benefit to society.

by dude187 5y ago

cratermoon 5y ago
What benefits do guns provide?
- dude187 5y ago
  Self defense, self sufficiency, an aid to help preserve individual freedom. I can already hear your reply rejecting each and every benefit, and just know that I will not agree. They are absolutely benefits me and those like be enjoy
  - KittenInABox 5y ago
    Genuinely asking: how has a gun helped you personally with self defense or individual freedom?
    - dude187 5y ago
      Self defense gun usage occurs very regularly. I'm fortunate to not have to have resorted to that myself, but the same goes for using my seat belt to protect my body. Also, the biggest dodge I see "studies" take in trying to discount defensive gun usage is to require a bullet to have been shot for it to count. This is very rarely the case for it to be effective at stopping a situation.
      - cratermoon 5y ago
        > Self defense gun usage occurs very regularly Actually no. The research generally points towards defensive gun use being rare and, when it does happen, are associated with escalated arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal. "A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly. Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society." [1][2] 1. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-thr... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.full.pdf https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.... See also Survey Research and Self-Defense Gun Use: An Explanation of Extreme Overestimates: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1144020 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1144020 The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007-2011 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25910555/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25910555/
- sparrish 5y ago
  CDC says there are "60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year." That's a lot of people protecting themselves and their loved ones while using a firearm. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.htm...
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    That was not "the CDC" that said that. The CDC does not do research on gun violence and hasn't since the passage of the Dickey Amendment in 1996. The cited page references "Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence", which is a report summarizing existing published, not a study. The range is from various studies cited there, including the widely-discredited work of Gary Kleck and John Lott. The latter, in particular, is an economist, not an expert in crime or health, and has been credibly accused of academic fraud.[1] "A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly. Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society."[2] "The canard of the armed civilian mass-shooting hero is perpetuated by exaggerations and half-truths" [3] The study that gun-rights activists keep citing but completely misunderstand [4] 1. https://archive.thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e83cf326/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e8... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.full.pdf https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.... 3. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shoot... 4. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/16/the-study-that-gun-rights-activists-keep-citing-but-completely-misunderstand/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/16/the-s...
    - dude187 5y ago
      "The canard of the armed civilian mass-shooting hero " A premise like this just proves you're not interested in any sort of truth discovery, nor discussing this issue in good faith. Guns are excellent tools for self defense.
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  I don't have any gun but... There are invasive species throughout Europe like wild boards and hunters are doing a great job in saving people's garden and farmer's farms. In France alone there are 5 million people (out of 70) who have a hunting license and more than 1 million that are actively hunting.

Both cars and guns provide a concrete tangible benefit to society.

cratermoon 5y ago

What benefits do guns provide?

dude187 5y ago
Self defense, self sufficiency, an aid to help preserve individual freedom. I can already hear your reply rejecting each and every benefit, and just know that I will not agree. They are absolutely benefits me and those like be enjoy
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  Genuinely asking: how has a gun helped you personally with self defense or individual freedom?
  - dude187 5y ago
    Self defense gun usage occurs very regularly. I'm fortunate to not have to have resorted to that myself, but the same goes for using my seat belt to protect my body. Also, the biggest dodge I see "studies" take in trying to discount defensive gun usage is to require a bullet to have been shot for it to count. This is very rarely the case for it to be effective at stopping a situation.
    - cratermoon 5y ago
      > Self defense gun usage occurs very regularly Actually no. The research generally points towards defensive gun use being rare and, when it does happen, are associated with escalated arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal. "A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly. Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society." [1][2] 1. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-thr... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.full.pdf https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.... See also Survey Research and Self-Defense Gun Use: An Explanation of Extreme Overestimates: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1144020 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1144020 The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007-2011 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25910555/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25910555/
sparrish 5y ago
CDC says there are "60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year." That's a lot of people protecting themselves and their loved ones while using a firearm. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.htm...
- cratermoon 5y ago
  That was not "the CDC" that said that. The CDC does not do research on gun violence and hasn't since the passage of the Dickey Amendment in 1996. The cited page references "Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence", which is a report summarizing existing published, not a study. The range is from various studies cited there, including the widely-discredited work of Gary Kleck and John Lott. The latter, in particular, is an economist, not an expert in crime or health, and has been credibly accused of academic fraud.[1] "A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly. Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society."[2] "The canard of the armed civilian mass-shooting hero is perpetuated by exaggerations and half-truths" [3] The study that gun-rights activists keep citing but completely misunderstand [4] 1. https://archive.thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e83cf326/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e8... 2. https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.full.pdf https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/6/4/263.... 3. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shoot... 4. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/16/the-study-that-gun-rights-activists-keep-citing-but-completely-misunderstand/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/16/the-s...
  - dude187 5y ago
    "The canard of the armed civilian mass-shooting hero " A premise like this just proves you're not interested in any sort of truth discovery, nor discussing this issue in good faith. Guns are excellent tools for self defense.
TacticalCoder 5y ago
I don't have any gun but... There are invasive species throughout Europe like wild boards and hunters are doing a great job in saving people's garden and farmer's farms. In France alone there are 5 million people (out of 70) who have a hunting license and more than 1 million that are actively hunting.