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AMD 5950x $750 Nvidia RTX 3060 $750 midrange x570 Motherboard $300 Samsung 980 pro 2TB $370 64GB DDR5 $700 decent 24" display $400 Case, keyboard, mouse, coolin

by hajile 5y ago

AMD 5950x $750 Nvidia RTX 3060 $750 midrange x570 Motherboard $300 Samsung 980 pro 2TB $370 64GB DDR5 $700 decent 24" display $400 Case, keyboard, mouse, cooling $400 That's $3670 -- If I build it myself. I'd expect to pay much more from a big box store for a prebuilt. A new 14" MacBook with M1 Max, 2TB SSD, and 64GB of RAM is around $4100. That's a great deal IMO

gigatexal 5y ago
And it's portable with a high dpi screen and 120hz refresh.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  > …with a high dpi screen and 120hz refresh Having shopped it recently, the desktop monitor market is abysmal right now. To get a monitor remotely comparable to the new MBP internal displays you're looking at spending $3k on one of a tiny handful of FALD displays which run hot enough to need a fan and have worse DPI, or rearranging your desk setup to accommodate a 48" LG OLED TV which is subject to burnin with serious usage. Apple can't release those lower-priced 27" displays that've been rumored soon enough.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    I hope the next large iMac is at least a little bit above 27", after all, the entry-level one went from 21.5 to 24". A 30" iMac with mini-led and 120Hz would be just too sweet.
    - kitsunesoba 5y ago
      That would be pretty great, but unless they restore display passthrough capabilities with the M-series 27"+ iMacs, I'm really hoping for a standalone display that can be used both with a laptop and the rumored upcoming "Mac Pro Mini"/G4 Cube MKII.
      - gigatexal 5y ago
        Speaking about nostalgia. I hope they bring back the cube. The thing was amazing in design just the G4 was too hot. Now with Apple Silicon and that’s not an issue. Tons of Apple fans from back in the day like myself would buy one just for nostalgia if nothing else.
        _ph_ 5y ago
        That would be nice. Some of the rumors about the Mini refresh point to something looking like the cube did. When all the Mac line is on the M2 generation, I would love Apple to add a Mac Nano based on the M1 to the lineup. Tiny, at the original price point of the Mini, like $499. They could greatly increase the market share of the Mac that way while keeping their other product tiers intact.
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
64GB memory, $292: https://www.newegg.com/crucial-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820156238?Item=N82E16820156238 https://www.newegg.com/crucial-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82... 2TB NVMe SSD, $199: https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-2tb-blue-sn550-nvme/p/N82E16820250173 https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-2tb-blue-sn550-nvme/p... X570 board, $154: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-phantom-gaming-4/p/N82E16813157884?Item=N82E16813157884 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-phantom-gaming-4/p/N82E16... Case, keyboard, mouse, fans: https://www.newegg.com/petrol-blue-fractal-design-focus-g-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352073?Item=N82E16811352073 https://www.newegg.com/petrol-blue-fractal-design-focus-g-at... https://www.newegg.com/logitech-mk120-920-002565-usb-wired/p/N82E16823126097 https://www.newegg.com/logitech-mk120-920-002565-usb-wired/p... https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0007-001M0?Item=9SIABW9EME4036 https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0007-001M0?Item=9SIABW9EME4036 Together ~$100. You're off by about $1000.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  There's definitely cheaper options for the various components, but I would personally choose a nicer motherboard if I were doing a 5950X build. One of the new ASUS boards with no chipset fan and 2x Thunderbolt 4 ports, like the ProArt X570 Creator Wifi, is a likely choice.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    I mean this is the other advantage of the PC. If you want to pay more and get the Thunderbolt ports, you can. If you don't need them for anything, you don't have to pay for them. The specs we're looking at here are pretty general. Most workloads are either going to be CPU bound or GPU bound, not both. Do you need the 5950X? Then you're CPU bound and can save $500 with another GPU. Do you need the RTX 3060? Then you're GPU bound and can save $500 with another CPU. If you need the fast GPU in the Mac, it comes as one piece in a machine that starts at $3500.
- friedman23 5y ago
  You went and found the cheapest versions of components you could find to make a false comparison. This has always been the difference between pc laptops and mac laptops. People say "I can get this cpu with this graphics card in a pc laptop for WAAYY cheaper" ignoring the memory, quality of the chassis, quality of the screen, quality of the speakers, the battery and just about everything else.
r00fus 5y ago
Given how difficult it's been to get GPUs recently due to supply chain crunch, are you sure you can actually get your order fulfilled without a significant wait period?
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  You can get them. The supply crunch is why the GPU is ~$750 instead of ~$300.
tagrun 5y ago
Strongly disagree. - I would never spend $400 for a 24" display, nor $400 for keyboard + mouse + cooling $400. I mainly use computers for HPC, so that's a totally unnecessary spending to me, you can get all those for just around $200-$300, so your estimate is unnecessarily inflated by at least $500-$600. - You can't pair 5950x with DDR5 RAM. If future devices are on table, consider comparing against Alder Lake S CPUs, which beat M1 Max in all metrics. You can pair 5950x with DDR4 only, and 64GB DDR4 RAM prices start from just $215 (which is more than $500 less than what you quote). - The GPU and DDR5 prices you are quoting are not their normal vendor prices (GPU shortage + virtually no RAM vendors started selling DDR5 and no CPUs or motherboards that can utilize them are sold as of today). MSRP price for RTX 3060 is $329, which is $400 less than the current unstable price. Remember that this pricing did not affect OEMs in the same manner, so you can buy computers from Dell/IBM/etc without inflated GPU prices. - Not to mention the elephant in the room of lacking software support. Why willingly become vendor locked into using ARM Mac OS? Moreover, HPC software relies on Intel CPUs with Intel MKL and even using AMD's CPU can cripple performance. With an ARM CPU or x86/amd64 translation layer, that's far worse (which might also apply to gaming). - Apple's offering still is a weaker computer in terms of raw hardware performance (especially on multi-core loads, by a large margin) for $500 (or $1000 if we cut luxurious spending on monitors, cooling, and an additional ~$1000 if we replace your DDR5 guesstimate with actually DDR4 prices and use MSRP price for the GPU) more by your estimation. The desktop RTX 3060 is also a better GPU. So, why should I pay $2000 more for a weaker computer? (with broken-at-best HPC software/Linux support, no less!) That's just nonsense.

by hajile 5y ago

gigatexal 5y ago

And it's portable with a high dpi screen and 120hz refresh.

kitsunesoba 5y ago
> …with a high dpi screen and 120hz refresh Having shopped it recently, the desktop monitor market is abysmal right now. To get a monitor remotely comparable to the new MBP internal displays you're looking at spending $3k on one of a tiny handful of FALD displays which run hot enough to need a fan and have worse DPI, or rearranging your desk setup to accommodate a 48" LG OLED TV which is subject to burnin with serious usage. Apple can't release those lower-priced 27" displays that've been rumored soon enough.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  I hope the next large iMac is at least a little bit above 27", after all, the entry-level one went from 21.5 to 24". A 30" iMac with mini-led and 120Hz would be just too sweet.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    That would be pretty great, but unless they restore display passthrough capabilities with the M-series 27"+ iMacs, I'm really hoping for a standalone display that can be used both with a laptop and the rumored upcoming "Mac Pro Mini"/G4 Cube MKII.
    - gigatexal 5y ago
      Speaking about nostalgia. I hope they bring back the cube. The thing was amazing in design just the G4 was too hot. Now with Apple Silicon and that’s not an issue. Tons of Apple fans from back in the day like myself would buy one just for nostalgia if nothing else.
      - _ph_ 5y ago
        That would be nice. Some of the rumors about the Mini refresh point to something looking like the cube did. When all the Mac line is on the M2 generation, I would love Apple to add a Mac Nano based on the M1 to the lineup. Tiny, at the original price point of the Mini, like $499. They could greatly increase the market share of the Mac that way while keeping their other product tiers intact.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

64GB memory, $292: https://www.newegg.com/crucial-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820156238?Item=N82E16820156238 https://www.newegg.com/crucial-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82... 2TB NVMe SSD, $199: https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-2tb-blue-sn550-nvme/p/N82E16820250173 https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-2tb-blue-sn550-nvme/p... X570 board, $154: https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-phantom-gaming-4/p/N82E16813157884?Item=N82E16813157884 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-x570-phantom-gaming-4/p/N82E16... Case, keyboard, mouse, fans: https://www.newegg.com/petrol-blue-fractal-design-focus-g-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352073?Item=N82E16811352073 https://www.newegg.com/petrol-blue-fractal-design-focus-g-at... https://www.newegg.com/logitech-mk120-920-002565-usb-wired/p/N82E16823126097 https://www.newegg.com/logitech-mk120-920-002565-usb-wired/p... https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0007-001M0?Item=9SIABW9EME4036 https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0007-001M0?Item=9SIABW9EME4036 Together ~$100. You're off by about $1000.

kitsunesoba 5y ago
There's definitely cheaper options for the various components, but I would personally choose a nicer motherboard if I were doing a 5950X build. One of the new ASUS boards with no chipset fan and 2x Thunderbolt 4 ports, like the ProArt X570 Creator Wifi, is a likely choice.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  I mean this is the other advantage of the PC. If you want to pay more and get the Thunderbolt ports, you can. If you don't need them for anything, you don't have to pay for them. The specs we're looking at here are pretty general. Most workloads are either going to be CPU bound or GPU bound, not both. Do you need the 5950X? Then you're CPU bound and can save $500 with another GPU. Do you need the RTX 3060? Then you're GPU bound and can save $500 with another CPU. If you need the fast GPU in the Mac, it comes as one piece in a machine that starts at $3500.
friedman23 5y ago
You went and found the cheapest versions of components you could find to make a false comparison. This has always been the difference between pc laptops and mac laptops. People say "I can get this cpu with this graphics card in a pc laptop for WAAYY cheaper" ignoring the memory, quality of the chassis, quality of the screen, quality of the speakers, the battery and just about everything else.

r00fus 5y ago

Given how difficult it's been to get GPUs recently due to supply chain crunch, are you sure you can actually get your order fulfilled without a significant wait period?

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
You can get them. The supply crunch is why the GPU is ~$750 instead of ~$300.

tagrun 5y ago

Strongly disagree. - I would never spend $400 for a 24" display, nor $400 for keyboard + mouse + cooling $400. I mainly use computers for HPC, so that's a totally unnecessary spending to me, you can get all those for just around $200-$300, so your estimate is unnecessarily inflated by at least $500-$600. - You can't pair 5950x with DDR5 RAM. If future devices are on table, consider comparing against Alder Lake S CPUs, which beat M1 Max in all metrics. You can pair 5950x with DDR4 only, and 64GB DDR4 RAM prices start from just $215 (which is more than $500 less than what you quote). - The GPU and DDR5 prices you are quoting are not their normal vendor prices (GPU shortage + virtually no RAM vendors started selling DDR5 and no CPUs or motherboards that can utilize them are sold as of today). MSRP price for RTX 3060 is $329, which is $400 less than the current unstable price. Remember that this pricing did not affect OEMs in the same manner, so you can buy computers from Dell/IBM/etc without inflated GPU prices. - Not to mention the elephant in the room of lacking software support. Why willingly become vendor locked into using ARM Mac OS? Moreover, HPC software relies on Intel CPUs with Intel MKL and even using AMD's CPU can cripple performance. With an ARM CPU or x86/amd64 translation layer, that's far worse (which might also apply to gaming). - Apple's offering still is a weaker computer in terms of raw hardware performance (especially on multi-core loads, by a large margin) for $500 (or $1000 if we cut luxurious spending on monitors, cooling, and an additional ~$1000 if we replace your DDR5 guesstimate with actually DDR4 prices and use MSRP price for the GPU) more by your estimation. The desktop RTX 3060 is also a better GPU. So, why should I pay $2000 more for a weaker computer? (with broken-at-best HPC software/Linux support, no less!) That's just nonsense.