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No human being should be tortured. That being said, is it not even worse that this guy was just a taxi driver and they knew they had the wrong guy. If you're

by a0-prw 5y ago

No human being should be tortured. That being said, is it not even worse that this guy was just a taxi driver and they knew they had the wrong guy. If you're CIA and complicit in mayhem around the world in general and the ME in particular, the risk of getting captured and tortured seems to me to "come with the territory". That doesn't make it right, obviously, but for God's sake the poor guy was just a random taxi driver and got tortured and imprisoned by the "leader of the free world". Probably noone will ever be held accountable either.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
my point exactly. what happened about the process of law? So school shooter who murders children in broad daylight is called just "mentally unstable" and the whole discussion is around "guns dont kill, people do" which is AFTER the fact and here we have people tortured in the name of "national security" before anything was done by these people. thought crimes much? that said, if american idea is to "torture" anyone, including known innocent people in the name of national security before they commit any crime, why have courts ? or are they for only "american citizens"?
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  Yeah, western governments (US, UK, EU) like to rahrah about democracy and the rule of law, but in reality they're fucking jokers. I'm quite left, but I don't wonder that rightwing populists are gaining in popularity when the citizenry can see how hypocritical their governments are. There are dozens of examples, obviously. Like the treatment of Assange by British kangaroo courts, EU nepotism and corruption (like tax-haven-Juncker or inept van der Leyen getting top EU jobs), EU basically paying Erdogan, Libya, and building a military border to prevent refugees from reaching their shores... As Louis Brandeis said: > Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means - to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal - would bring terrible retributions.
- bcrl 5y ago
  Maybe the saying should be amended to "guns don't kill, governments do". After all, only the government can get away with killing people legally.

by a0-prw 5y ago

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

my point exactly. what happened about the process of law? So school shooter who murders children in broad daylight is called just "mentally unstable" and the whole discussion is around "guns dont kill, people do" which is AFTER the fact and here we have people tortured in the name of "national security" before anything was done by these people. thought crimes much? that said, if american idea is to "torture" anyone, including known innocent people in the name of national security before they commit any crime, why have courts ? or are they for only "american citizens"?

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
Yeah, western governments (US, UK, EU) like to rahrah about democracy and the rule of law, but in reality they're fucking jokers. I'm quite left, but I don't wonder that rightwing populists are gaining in popularity when the citizenry can see how hypocritical their governments are. There are dozens of examples, obviously. Like the treatment of Assange by British kangaroo courts, EU nepotism and corruption (like tax-haven-Juncker or inept van der Leyen getting top EU jobs), EU basically paying Erdogan, Libya, and building a military border to prevent refugees from reaching their shores... As Louis Brandeis said: > Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means - to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal - would bring terrible retributions.
bcrl 5y ago
Maybe the saying should be amended to "guns don't kill, governments do". After all, only the government can get away with killing people legally.