4 ms·

You're really pushing it if you're classing Moscow and Tel Aviv as "European" cities...

by atomicdog 15y ago

chico_dusty 15y ago
Say what? Moscow is most definitely European. It's located something like 850 miles west of the Urals.
arethuza 15y ago
So what continent do you think Moscow is in? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
smiler 15y ago
Israel is thought of European because its football team is aligned with UEFA (Union of European Football Associations) and also it participates in the Eurovision song contest, so a lot of Europeans, myself included, definitely see Israel as quasi-European
- marcf 15y ago
  Israel is fairly European in a lot of aspects except when it comes to its occupation of the Palestinian territories and its denial of rights to the inhabitants of those territories. Israel's behavior with regards to the West Bank is so bad that it being referred to more and more as an apartheid situation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analog...
  - nivertech 15y ago
    Apartheid was invented by British colonialism. The current deadlock in Israel is also British colonial inheritance. That's sums up any analogies between South Africa and Israel.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    This is the third time I've seen you try and start a flamewar over Israel. Please knock that shit off.
    - marcf 15y ago
      I made three posts in quick succession with regards to Israel, each time I kept it short and sweet and what I said was directly relevant to the posts I was responding to. #1. Two postings I responded where saying in effect that culturally Israel is similar to Europe, one of them was yours. I said that is true, except when it comes to its occupation. With regards to the occupation, its is related human rights issues, Israel is very unlike modern Europe. That is a completely true observation and it was appropriate in the context I posted it. #2. A third response was with regards to someone else saying that Israel played in the European league because it wanted to avoid matches with Syria and Iran, but the actual reason is that Israel viewed very negatively by the majority of its neighbors in the Arab world primarily because of its treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories. It isn't just about Syria and Iran, but rather about Jordan, Egypt and basically every other state in the region. Again that is a completely true observation and appropriate in the context.
      - philwelch 15y ago
        As far as human rights go, I think you've forgotten that Yugoslavia is part of Europe. There are also parallels with Northern Ireland. And as far as Israel's relations with the Arab countries, it has more to do with anti-Semitism. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is no worse--and in many respects better--than that of Jordan and Egypt. EDIT: Before you think of responding to this and disagreeing with me, keep in mind--this is exactly how every Israel flamewar everywhere else on the internet ever starts. We're all decently informed people here, well aware of the situation in the Middle East. It's sufficient to point out that Israel maintains relationships with European countries due to its strained relations with its Arab neighbors. It does no good to drag out your own opinions of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. Saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East so they play football matches against European countries" makes a valid point. Saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East because Israel practices apartheid", or for that matter saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East because the Arabs are anti-Semitic zealots" is flamebait and doesn't belong on Hacker News.

You're really pushing it if you're classing Moscow and Tel Aviv as "European" cities...

chico_dusty 15y ago

Say what? Moscow is most definitely European. It's located something like 850 miles west of the Urals.

arethuza 15y ago

So what continent do you think Moscow is in? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

smiler 15y ago

Israel is thought of European because its football team is aligned with UEFA (Union of European Football Associations) and also it participates in the Eurovision song contest, so a lot of Europeans, myself included, definitely see Israel as quasi-European

marcf 15y ago
Israel is fairly European in a lot of aspects except when it comes to its occupation of the Palestinian territories and its denial of rights to the inhabitants of those territories. Israel's behavior with regards to the West Bank is so bad that it being referred to more and more as an apartheid situation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analog...
- nivertech 15y ago
  Apartheid was invented by British colonialism. The current deadlock in Israel is also British colonial inheritance. That's sums up any analogies between South Africa and Israel.
- philwelch 15y ago
  This is the third time I've seen you try and start a flamewar over Israel. Please knock that shit off.
  - marcf 15y ago
    I made three posts in quick succession with regards to Israel, each time I kept it short and sweet and what I said was directly relevant to the posts I was responding to. #1. Two postings I responded where saying in effect that culturally Israel is similar to Europe, one of them was yours. I said that is true, except when it comes to its occupation. With regards to the occupation, its is related human rights issues, Israel is very unlike modern Europe. That is a completely true observation and it was appropriate in the context I posted it. #2. A third response was with regards to someone else saying that Israel played in the European league because it wanted to avoid matches with Syria and Iran, but the actual reason is that Israel viewed very negatively by the majority of its neighbors in the Arab world primarily because of its treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories. It isn't just about Syria and Iran, but rather about Jordan, Egypt and basically every other state in the region. Again that is a completely true observation and appropriate in the context.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      As far as human rights go, I think you've forgotten that Yugoslavia is part of Europe. There are also parallels with Northern Ireland. And as far as Israel's relations with the Arab countries, it has more to do with anti-Semitism. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is no worse--and in many respects better--than that of Jordan and Egypt. EDIT: Before you think of responding to this and disagreeing with me, keep in mind--this is exactly how every Israel flamewar everywhere else on the internet ever starts. We're all decently informed people here, well aware of the situation in the Middle East. It's sufficient to point out that Israel maintains relationships with European countries due to its strained relations with its Arab neighbors. It does no good to drag out your own opinions of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. Saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East so they play football matches against European countries" makes a valid point. Saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East because Israel practices apartheid", or for that matter saying "Israel doesn't get along with other countries in the Middle East because the Arabs are anti-Semitic zealots" is flamebait and doesn't belong on Hacker News.