4 ms·

Ask HN: How to convince a fellow programmer to join your startup

12 points by cnu 18y ago

The question says it all. Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks and has a good day job. How do founders convince people they know into joining their companies?

noodle 18y ago
the fact of the matter is that there is inherent risk in working a startup. or starting one. it takes a certain type of person to be willing to do this. not everyone has the ability to do it. for example, a guy supporting a family with house and car payments is more likely to want a steady corporate job. to get people, you need to offer a competitive salary. everyone has to pay the bills. after that, its the perks. if working at a company is fun, who wouldn't want to work there?
prakash 18y ago
As Charlie Munger says “If you would persuade, appeal to interest not to reason.” Address what the worst case scenario could be, in most startups that would be going out of business. Highlight that it would be a better experience in the same period working for a startup rather than said current company. It could also be financial, maybe he/she has stock options & trigers that would vest in a few months.
- nickb 18y ago
  That's an old Ben Franklin quote.
  - prakash 18y ago
    Thanks, didn't know it was Ben.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
cperciva 18y ago
Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks I don't think that "someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks" is really someone you should want joining your startup, personally.
- comatose_kid 18y ago
  Not necessarily, especially if the talent is great. Woz didn't want to leave HP at one point.
  - bootload 18y ago
    "... Woz didn't want to leave HP at one point. ..." Woz also probably wanted to build stuff for himself that HP refused to take up. So creating Apple was a logical step. I think the real convincing was via the "Reality Distortion Field" ~ http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Reality_Distortion_Field.txt&topic=Reality%20Distortion&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...
    - cnu 18y ago
      Yeah. That is what I wanted to know. What do people who don't have the Reality Distortion Field do to persuade people? The programmers I know are pretty good but they also have PHB (pointy haired bosses) and also hate some things of working in a big corporate.
      - swombat 18y ago
        What do people who don't have the Reality Distortion Field do to persuade people? Learn to develop one. It doesn't need to be as good as Steve Job's, but being able to persuade people that you're onto something is a pretty essential skill as a start-up founder. In fact, I wouldn't start up unless you are able to convince a few people that your proposed business is really good and worth backing. Consider it a first hurdle. If you can't convince people to join up with you, either your pitching skills are not good enough (so improve them) or your idea sucks (so iterate through that). And, as others have said, if that person is not really interested in the start-up life, don't push them... find someone else (unless that person is a genius).
azharcs 18y ago
If you really want him badly, I would say do whatever you can to convince him. Show the advantages of working on this start up and disadvantages of his day job. Sooner or later, he will have a bad day at work and he will surely think about quitting the day job. That is one when you will become an alternative.
wheels 18y ago
Honestly I don't try to persuade people. I want them to know what they're getting into and be willing to take that risk with us. I feel like if you lure someone away from a steady job with pie-in-the-sky logic, you're setting yourself up to lose a friend. When I got my co-founder in on things, we talked very seriously about the realistic chance of success, how much stress it would be, and well, how much we'd learn along the way and that we might even have a little fun. Expectation management seems to be important.
vaksel 18y ago
Is gaining this person vital to completing the project? If not do it on your own, until you are far enough to be able to invite the person at the later stage. If yes, you are going to need to pony up the cash, have enough to be able to provide for both of you to survive on ramen noodles for 6 months.
pjr 18y ago
Try to get him to go part-time, even just a few hours a week, so that he can see why your start-up is so great.
- cnu 18y ago
  Infact this is one thing which really does work well with most people. Since good programmers are already working part time on projects which interests them, it becomes really easy to allow them to moonlight and join as full time a few months later.
DenisM 18y ago
Here's an argument from an older, successful corporate guy, which I found very compelling: Throughout my life I have taken many opportunities, and not all of them went well. But the only ones I truly regret are the ones which I didn't take.
randomwalker 18y ago
DON'T! To be sucessful at a startup, the cofounders really have to believe in it. If you explain your project to someone, and they don't buy it, and you sell hard and convince them, sooner or later they are going to have second thoughts. And that's going to doom you.
bootload 18y ago
"... Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks and has a good day job ..." Are you a born salesman? Do you have great persuasion skills and killer smile that can motivate others to do what you want? Are you capable of identifying the targets motivation and swaying them over? If you did you wouldn't be asking this question. Find another. A programmer is not by default an ideal Startup Founder. Finding someone who is technical and who compliments your skillset is important. Someone who can build stuff. But if someone has to be convinced and not brave enough to leave what they are doing. When things get tough guess who will leave? Are they motivated enough to stick out the marathon? I've often thought to myself, "what is the best measure of a potential co-founder?". Is it a combination of raw ability, skill & determination? Could the "X" factor be a fierce desire to do something for themselves? Build something (product) and profiting from it? If the fire is not there, a programmer might make a good employee. But Co-founder?
liangzan 18y ago
Sometimes its what you're working on that matters. If its something worthwhile like kiva.com or world vision, I would go for it even if I got to take a pay cut. You got to persuade using the intangibles.
mattjung 18y ago
I think it is worth the effort to convince him if you are convinced that he will bring the startup forward. Convincing someone is not something to be done in 5 minutes. Ask him the question: what would be the worst case scenario you could face taking the risk? Show him what he might win - I am not talking about money, but experience, fun, responsibility, reputation, stories for his grand-children. Give him some articles of Paul Graham to read, e.g. "Why not to start a startup".
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
iuguy 18y ago
You have to turn on the charm, find out what the guys fears or objections are and remove/counter them. Emphasise the positives. DONT offer equity to someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks. I've told prospective hires (and current hires) that providing equity at this stage would cause them more problems than it solves, but then again I'm not looking to cash in my chips in the next 6 months.
anamax 18y ago
Is another programmer your startup's top need or your top need?

12 points by cnu 18y ago

noodle 18y ago

the fact of the matter is that there is inherent risk in working a startup. or starting one. it takes a certain type of person to be willing to do this. not everyone has the ability to do it. for example, a guy supporting a family with house and car payments is more likely to want a steady corporate job. to get people, you need to offer a competitive salary. everyone has to pay the bills. after that, its the perks. if working at a company is fun, who wouldn't want to work there?

prakash 18y ago

As Charlie Munger says “If you would persuade, appeal to interest not to reason.” Address what the worst case scenario could be, in most startups that would be going out of business. Highlight that it would be a better experience in the same period working for a startup rather than said current company. It could also be financial, maybe he/she has stock options & trigers that would vest in a few months.

nickb 18y ago
That's an old Ben Franklin quote.
- prakash 18y ago
  Thanks, didn't know it was Ben.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

cperciva 18y ago

Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks I don't think that "someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks" is really someone you should want joining your startup, personally.

comatose_kid 18y ago
Not necessarily, especially if the talent is great. Woz didn't want to leave HP at one point.
- bootload 18y ago
  "... Woz didn't want to leave HP at one point. ..." Woz also probably wanted to build stuff for himself that HP refused to take up. So creating Apple was a logical step. I think the real convincing was via the "Reality Distortion Field" ~ http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Reality_Distortion_Field.txt&topic=Reality%20Distortion&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...
  - cnu 18y ago
    Yeah. That is what I wanted to know. What do people who don't have the Reality Distortion Field do to persuade people? The programmers I know are pretty good but they also have PHB (pointy haired bosses) and also hate some things of working in a big corporate.
    - swombat 18y ago
      What do people who don't have the Reality Distortion Field do to persuade people? Learn to develop one. It doesn't need to be as good as Steve Job's, but being able to persuade people that you're onto something is a pretty essential skill as a start-up founder. In fact, I wouldn't start up unless you are able to convince a few people that your proposed business is really good and worth backing. Consider it a first hurdle. If you can't convince people to join up with you, either your pitching skills are not good enough (so improve them) or your idea sucks (so iterate through that). And, as others have said, if that person is not really interested in the start-up life, don't push them... find someone else (unless that person is a genius).

azharcs 18y ago

If you really want him badly, I would say do whatever you can to convince him. Show the advantages of working on this start up and disadvantages of his day job. Sooner or later, he will have a bad day at work and he will surely think about quitting the day job. That is one when you will become an alternative.

wheels 18y ago

Honestly I don't try to persuade people. I want them to know what they're getting into and be willing to take that risk with us. I feel like if you lure someone away from a steady job with pie-in-the-sky logic, you're setting yourself up to lose a friend. When I got my co-founder in on things, we talked very seriously about the realistic chance of success, how much stress it would be, and well, how much we'd learn along the way and that we might even have a little fun. Expectation management seems to be important.

vaksel 18y ago

Is gaining this person vital to completing the project? If not do it on your own, until you are far enough to be able to invite the person at the later stage. If yes, you are going to need to pony up the cash, have enough to be able to provide for both of you to survive on ramen noodles for 6 months.

pjr 18y ago

Try to get him to go part-time, even just a few hours a week, so that he can see why your start-up is so great.

cnu 18y ago
Infact this is one thing which really does work well with most people. Since good programmers are already working part time on projects which interests them, it becomes really easy to allow them to moonlight and join as full time a few months later.

DenisM 18y ago

Here's an argument from an older, successful corporate guy, which I found very compelling: Throughout my life I have taken many opportunities, and not all of them went well. But the only ones I truly regret are the ones which I didn't take.

randomwalker 18y ago

DON'T! To be sucessful at a startup, the cofounders really have to believe in it. If you explain your project to someone, and they don't buy it, and you sell hard and convince them, sooner or later they are going to have second thoughts. And that's going to doom you.

bootload 18y ago

"... Assume that the programmer is good but isn't that brave enough to take the risks and has a good day job ..." Are you a born salesman? Do you have great persuasion skills and killer smile that can motivate others to do what you want? Are you capable of identifying the targets motivation and swaying them over? If you did you wouldn't be asking this question. Find another. A programmer is not by default an ideal Startup Founder. Finding someone who is technical and who compliments your skillset is important. Someone who can build stuff. But if someone has to be convinced and not brave enough to leave what they are doing. When things get tough guess who will leave? Are they motivated enough to stick out the marathon? I've often thought to myself, "what is the best measure of a potential co-founder?". Is it a combination of raw ability, skill & determination? Could the "X" factor be a fierce desire to do something for themselves? Build something (product) and profiting from it? If the fire is not there, a programmer might make a good employee. But Co-founder?

liangzan 18y ago

Sometimes its what you're working on that matters. If its something worthwhile like kiva.com or world vision, I would go for it even if I got to take a pay cut. You got to persuade using the intangibles.

mattjung 18y ago

I think it is worth the effort to convince him if you are convinced that he will bring the startup forward. Convincing someone is not something to be done in 5 minutes. Ask him the question: what would be the worst case scenario you could face taking the risk? Show him what he might win - I am not talking about money, but experience, fun, responsibility, reputation, stories for his grand-children. Give him some articles of Paul Graham to read, e.g. "Why not to start a startup".

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

iuguy 18y ago

You have to turn on the charm, find out what the guys fears or objections are and remove/counter them. Emphasise the positives. DONT offer equity to someone who isn't brave enough to take the risks. I've told prospective hires (and current hires) that providing equity at this stage would cause them more problems than it solves, but then again I'm not looking to cash in my chips in the next 6 months.

anamax 18y ago

Is another programmer your startup's top need or your top need?