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>I'm not a fan of the use of the word "pimp" in this context In this context it means "to adapt or embellish in an ostentatious manner".

mattbaker 5y ago
Yeahhhh but the context doesn’t negate the fact that the word is a reference to exploitation. I’m with the parent comment on this one. If it was 2005 I probably wouldn’t have blinked but ya know, the world moves on. There are just so many names to pick from! I find the choice very confusing. Too cringe-y for me to consider sharing or using personally, but I’m sure some will and I hope they enjoy it.
- siva7 5y ago
  Words can have many different unrelated meanings, based on context. Going with sexual exploitation is beyond absurdity when Pimp my X is a well-known cultural reference
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I’m pretty sympathetic in this case, but to point out the obvious: something being a “well-known cultural reference” isn’t itself a strong justification for using language or symbols that are known to be offensive. An intuitive case for most people: we all recognize the car from The Dukes of Hazzard, but you probably shouldn’t put the confederate battle flag on your own car as a reference to it.
    - VonGallifrey 5y ago
      > language or symbols that are known to be offensive. Known? It seems like many people are disagreeing with you. Who knows that it is offensive? Who decided? Can you tell me or did you just write it in this way to avoid saying directly that it is just your personal opinion that this word is offensive?
      - woodruffw 5y ago
        I’m not particularly offended by the word “pimp” (I’m not easily offended in general, thanks(?) to years of imageboard culture). But that’s entirely separate from the question of whether the word “pimp” is, in fact, offensive. I think failing to acknowledge that it is a generally offensive word is more a testament to obstinacy than anything else.
    - twofornone 5y ago
      >that are known to be offensive Unironically, virtue signalling is offensive to me. What now? Who defines offensiveness? >you probably shouldn’t put the confederate battle flag on your own car as a reference to it. Who are you to define a cultural symbol for other people? I think we need to recognize that offense is not given, it is taken; and it is up to the individual to recognize that context matters before taking offense. The alternative is effectively authoritarianism, dictation of culture and weaponization of victimhood.
      - woodruffw 5y ago
        In case it wasn’t clear, the offensiveness of the confederate battle flag is assumed: I don’t think there’s a counterposition that’s worth seriously entertaining. Put another way: it’s outside of the realm of serious conversation to dry to pull a fast one with relativism when the subject is something so cut-and-dry. If you feel offended by other people saying that they are uncomfortable with things (which, again, doesn’t clearly translate to “virtue signaling” to me), then that sounds like a “you” problem. It’s worth introspecting on why others’ feelings affect yours that much, and why that comes out in such breathless language as “authoritarian,” “weaponization,” &c.
        twofornone 5y ago
        >In case it wasn’t clear, the offensiveness of the confederate battle flag is assumed: I don’t think there’s a counterposition that’s worth seriously entertaining. Put another way: it’s outside of the realm of serious conversation to dry to pull a fast one with relativism when the subject is something so cut-and-dry. This is only true if you live in an urban bubble. The confederate flag represents more than racism and slavery to southerners, frankly, you are narrow minded. And your interpretation is, ironically, offensive to those who live in the south. Herein lies the conundrum. You have no right to dictate, what is and is not cut and dry to other people. >why that comes out in such breathless language as “authoritarian,” “weaponization,” &c. Because inevitably those among us who are the loudest regarding political correctness use it as a tool to grab at power that more often than not is undeserved. They are aggressors in a culture war which is has long ago consumed academia and is rapidly spreading through industry; political correctness is literally thought control and as such forms a foundation for authoritarianism. I repeat, you have no right to dictate what symbols mean to me - your culture does not supercede mine. All symbols must be considered alongside within the context of intent. I am not offended by people saying that they are uncomfortable, I am offended by such people telling me I am not allowed to use certain symbols or language, or have certain thoughts, under penalty of termination of employment or blacklisting, since ultimately this is a unilateral imposition of culture. And in fact when such political correctness spreads to other countries, when westerners start insisting that, say, Japan is not diverse or LGBT friendly enough, this is modern cultural imperialism. I don't need it at home and it isn't right abroad either. This is about far more than pronouns and flags.
diskzero 5y ago
One may choose to participate in normalizing terms that have origins that may offend. This happens frequently and often times we are unaware of the offensive origins of terms until it is pointed out. You may decide to continue to use the term and ignore them or you may choose to listen to their objections. Some may call this virtue signalling, or cancel culture or any other number of terms. I am not the language police and I am not going to "cancel" this Show HN for the use of what I consider an offensive term. I am an investor and an advisor, so my advice is to not use that term. I feel that it is juvenile and shows a lack of concern. You may disagree and point towards normalizing behavior (MTV, evolving slang, etc.) as your justification. My philosophy is why bother to offend if you can avoid it. I also will fight for your right to be offensive. But I won't invest in your startup or star your Github repo.
- grayhatter 5y ago
  > My philosophy is why bother to offend if you can avoid it. Implying saying something someone might find offensive requires active intent. OP clearly isn't trying to be offensive. It's ethically wrong to imply, suggest, or act as if they are. The commenter doesn't like the word pimp, and wants others to feel the same distaste they're afflicted by. What the OP intended to do is irrelevant. More directly why bother to offend if you cant help it. Because someone will happily take offense to anything. So to avoid it would mean not interacting at all. Which is exactly why we can't have nice things. OP is trying to be nice sharing something they feel is useful. Only to be be accosted with the accusation they're intentionally trying to be offensive. If you're going to make something someone will find useful, and it only costs some offense to someone trying to find a way to feel offensive, you then try to cause offence.
  - diskzero 5y ago
    I am not sure I understand your point about intent. I do agree that the OP did not intend to offend. My input to the Show HN is that I found the term juvenile and offensive. The OP may choose to accept my advice or disregard it. I am not judging them, only providing some input. Yes, people can choose to take offense at anything. There isn't much we can do about that. In my own interactions, there are certain words and phrases I choose not to use. This works for me, doesn't harm others and generally improves my quality of life. We exist in a world of many intersecting values and beliefs. We navigate through them in differing ways. There is room for many differing points of view, although recent events make it seem like this is a less viable belief. Back the the OP, this is a Show HN. My input is I think the name is lame. I won't censor, down vote, blacklist or otherwise assign any other intent.

mattbaker 5y ago

Yeahhhh but the context doesn’t negate the fact that the word is a reference to exploitation. I’m with the parent comment on this one. If it was 2005 I probably wouldn’t have blinked but ya know, the world moves on. There are just so many names to pick from! I find the choice very confusing. Too cringe-y for me to consider sharing or using personally, but I’m sure some will and I hope they enjoy it.

siva7 5y ago
Words can have many different unrelated meanings, based on context. Going with sexual exploitation is beyond absurdity when Pimp my X is a well-known cultural reference
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I’m pretty sympathetic in this case, but to point out the obvious: something being a “well-known cultural reference” isn’t itself a strong justification for using language or symbols that are known to be offensive. An intuitive case for most people: we all recognize the car from The Dukes of Hazzard, but you probably shouldn’t put the confederate battle flag on your own car as a reference to it.
  - VonGallifrey 5y ago
    > language or symbols that are known to be offensive. Known? It seems like many people are disagreeing with you. Who knows that it is offensive? Who decided? Can you tell me or did you just write it in this way to avoid saying directly that it is just your personal opinion that this word is offensive?
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      I’m not particularly offended by the word “pimp” (I’m not easily offended in general, thanks(?) to years of imageboard culture). But that’s entirely separate from the question of whether the word “pimp” is, in fact, offensive. I think failing to acknowledge that it is a generally offensive word is more a testament to obstinacy than anything else.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    >that are known to be offensive Unironically, virtue signalling is offensive to me. What now? Who defines offensiveness? >you probably shouldn’t put the confederate battle flag on your own car as a reference to it. Who are you to define a cultural symbol for other people? I think we need to recognize that offense is not given, it is taken; and it is up to the individual to recognize that context matters before taking offense. The alternative is effectively authoritarianism, dictation of culture and weaponization of victimhood.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      In case it wasn’t clear, the offensiveness of the confederate battle flag is assumed: I don’t think there’s a counterposition that’s worth seriously entertaining. Put another way: it’s outside of the realm of serious conversation to dry to pull a fast one with relativism when the subject is something so cut-and-dry. If you feel offended by other people saying that they are uncomfortable with things (which, again, doesn’t clearly translate to “virtue signaling” to me), then that sounds like a “you” problem. It’s worth introspecting on why others’ feelings affect yours that much, and why that comes out in such breathless language as “authoritarian,” “weaponization,” &c.
      - twofornone 5y ago
        >In case it wasn’t clear, the offensiveness of the confederate battle flag is assumed: I don’t think there’s a counterposition that’s worth seriously entertaining. Put another way: it’s outside of the realm of serious conversation to dry to pull a fast one with relativism when the subject is something so cut-and-dry. This is only true if you live in an urban bubble. The confederate flag represents more than racism and slavery to southerners, frankly, you are narrow minded. And your interpretation is, ironically, offensive to those who live in the south. Herein lies the conundrum. You have no right to dictate, what is and is not cut and dry to other people. >why that comes out in such breathless language as “authoritarian,” “weaponization,” &c. Because inevitably those among us who are the loudest regarding political correctness use it as a tool to grab at power that more often than not is undeserved. They are aggressors in a culture war which is has long ago consumed academia and is rapidly spreading through industry; political correctness is literally thought control and as such forms a foundation for authoritarianism. I repeat, you have no right to dictate what symbols mean to me - your culture does not supercede mine. All symbols must be considered alongside within the context of intent. I am not offended by people saying that they are uncomfortable, I am offended by such people telling me I am not allowed to use certain symbols or language, or have certain thoughts, under penalty of termination of employment or blacklisting, since ultimately this is a unilateral imposition of culture. And in fact when such political correctness spreads to other countries, when westerners start insisting that, say, Japan is not diverse or LGBT friendly enough, this is modern cultural imperialism. I don't need it at home and it isn't right abroad either. This is about far more than pronouns and flags.

diskzero 5y ago

One may choose to participate in normalizing terms that have origins that may offend. This happens frequently and often times we are unaware of the offensive origins of terms until it is pointed out. You may decide to continue to use the term and ignore them or you may choose to listen to their objections. Some may call this virtue signalling, or cancel culture or any other number of terms. I am not the language police and I am not going to "cancel" this Show HN for the use of what I consider an offensive term. I am an investor and an advisor, so my advice is to not use that term. I feel that it is juvenile and shows a lack of concern. You may disagree and point towards normalizing behavior (MTV, evolving slang, etc.) as your justification. My philosophy is why bother to offend if you can avoid it. I also will fight for your right to be offensive. But I won't invest in your startup or star your Github repo.

grayhatter 5y ago
> My philosophy is why bother to offend if you can avoid it. Implying saying something someone might find offensive requires active intent. OP clearly isn't trying to be offensive. It's ethically wrong to imply, suggest, or act as if they are. The commenter doesn't like the word pimp, and wants others to feel the same distaste they're afflicted by. What the OP intended to do is irrelevant. More directly why bother to offend if you cant help it. Because someone will happily take offense to anything. So to avoid it would mean not interacting at all. Which is exactly why we can't have nice things. OP is trying to be nice sharing something they feel is useful. Only to be be accosted with the accusation they're intentionally trying to be offensive. If you're going to make something someone will find useful, and it only costs some offense to someone trying to find a way to feel offensive, you then try to cause offence.
- diskzero 5y ago
  I am not sure I understand your point about intent. I do agree that the OP did not intend to offend. My input to the Show HN is that I found the term juvenile and offensive. The OP may choose to accept my advice or disregard it. I am not judging them, only providing some input. Yes, people can choose to take offense at anything. There isn't much we can do about that. In my own interactions, there are certain words and phrases I choose not to use. This works for me, doesn't harm others and generally improves my quality of life. We exist in a world of many intersecting values and beliefs. We navigate through them in differing ways. There is room for many differing points of view, although recent events make it seem like this is a less viable belief. Back the the OP, this is a Show HN. My input is I think the name is lame. I won't censor, down vote, blacklist or otherwise assign any other intent.