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Since this is an international issue and there's no global "legality", the effect is that locations matter a lot. Presumably, the hacking was done by Saudi aut
by PeterisP 5y ago
Since this is an international issue and there's no global "legality", the effect is that locations matter a lot.
Presumably, the hacking was done by Saudi authorities from SA, using NSO-developed tools. Citizenship of the target is not very relevant, but it does matter where "the event" happened.
If the reporter was in Saudi Arabia when the hack happened, then Saudi laws apply and essentially Saudi government gets to set conditions on whether it was legal or not, and if it was forbidden by their laws, then what consequences (if any!) that should have.
If the reporter was in USA at the time, then it would be reasonable to apply US jurisdiction and try and investigate it as a crime in USA. However, Saudi Arabia can refuse to cooperate and even if USA prosecutors identify the culprits and convict them, Saudi Arabia can refuse to extradite them and choose to protect them. In essence, if it's not a random foreign criminal but someone from the actual foreign government that has harmed USA citizens in USA, it's not really a criminal matter as much as a diplomatic one, where all the other aspects of USA-Saudi relationships matter much more than any facts about the actual case; USA can choose to make a big deal out of it or ignore it, but historical precedent shows that it likely will be ignored as the Department of State considers all the other factors of Middle Eastern politics as much more important, SA could likely get away with literal murder (e.g. Khashoggi), not just some hacks.
In a similar manner, perhaps you could argue that NSO is an accomplice in that crime (I'm not saying that this would succeed - in general, arms exporters are not considered liable for whoever the purchasing country harms), but that essentially comes down to (a) whether USA prosecutors are willing to pursue this, and (b) whether Israel is willing to cooperate, as in the absence of specific treaties it would be legitimate for Israel to say "NSO did not violate our laws, we won't enforce any foreign judgements about this event"; if so, then any action would be limited to seizing whatever assets NSO has in USA (if any!) and/or trying to capture the involved people (if specific people can be identified) when they are traveling outside of Israel somewhere within the reach of USA. USA could apply diplomatic pressure to get Israel to restrict NSO, however, it doesn't seem likely that USA wants it so much to actually try and change that.
For another of your questions, sale of hacking software can be regulated by countries in whatever way each country wishes. In this case, as far as I understand, Israel treats is as essentially an equivalent of "arms export" where NSO has to obtain approval from Israel government for their foreign customers, but in this case it is not contested that NSO did have all the required approvals to sell their tools to Saudi Arabia.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- caf 5y agoThere are allegations that the NSO Group doesn't provide the 0days they're using to their customers, so they are in fact performing the intrusions themselves.
- sterlind 5y agosounds like they should be treated like mercenaries.
- PeterisP 5y agoWhat exactly do you mean by "treated like mercenaries", what should be the treatment in your opinion ? In general, countries do hire mercenaries/private military contractors/etc, and it is not considered anything special, and many powerful countries (including e.g. the USA) routinely use mercenaries in their campaigns. the "sending" nation may restrict their people and companies from mercenary actions abroad if they choose to, but if e.g. Israel is okay with their company hiring out as a "mercenary" (the term usually implies directly participating in a conflict while being armed and excludes any other support such as training, logistics, software, etc, but for the sake of argument let's assume it applies here) for Saudi Arabia then there would be nothing unusual about that - for example, Saudi Arabia has used thousands of mercenaries in Yemen. If the specific individuals commit something that's a crime in USA then USA can try to put them on trial, but that works exactly the same no matter if they're Saudi citizens working Saudi government or serving in Saudi military, or foreigners contracted out to Saudi government as "mercenaries"; in both cases it's up to the local government whether they want to hand them over (effectively betraying their own "employees") or refuse.
- KMag 5y agoPresumably the GP means that the NSO employees should be held personally responsible for actions taken by the NSO group, without diplomatic cover or ability to claim that they're law enforcement/military/intelligence. They are civilians, not uniformed government employees.