5 ms·

> (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) This part doesn't matter much in practicality. Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their

by cronix 5y ago

> (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) This part doesn't matter much in practicality. Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. They worked around it. We live in a shadowy world. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/20/us-uk-secret-deal-surveillance-personal-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/20/us-uk-secret-d...

White_Wolf 5y ago
I'm not sure if this counts as spying but in UK they are allowed to monitor people to quite a large extent if I got this right. I think refusing to decrypt your device when requested is also punishable. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance-laws-explained-investigatory-powers-bill https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance...
- xxpor 5y ago
  Yeah the whole "unwritten constitution" thing is very laughable, if we're honest. At least the US Federal gov has to pretend to care about the 4th and 5th amendments.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    If were honest, the us is held together by a few pieces of paper written by a bunch of men 250 years ago that wasn't meant to last 20 years and has since become the sparring ground of lawyers who have twisted it beyond recognition no doubt.
- cesaref 5y ago
  Indeed, I don't think the UK government has any problem hacking phones if they believe this is required, but it's likely to involve disclosure to the courts, and hence in some way be accountable. It's therefore easier to get a friendly government to do the hacking and to pass on the discovered info, which side-steps any legal accountability.
zionic 5y ago
> Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. Let’s not mince words, this is officials of the United States of America conspiring with foreign hostile [0] powers to undermine the rights and security of the American public. It’s treason, and an incoming president with the stones required could arrest much of the former administration’s “intelligence community” leadership in midnight raids via the insurrection act. [0] Foreign intelligence services are, by design, hostile powers even if they belong to an ally. The UK is an ally, but GCHQ is a hostile agency from the perspective of the United States public which these agencies supposedly serve.
- cronix 5y ago
  But then we'd have to get into other messy things like the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley bypassing the president's constitutional executive authorities ability to launch a nuclear attack. Of course it's framed as him saving humanity, but at it's core you had a treasonous act. > Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley took steps to prevent then-President Donald Trump from misusing the country's nuclear arsenal during the last month of his presidency, according to a new book by The Washington Post's Bob Woodward and Robert Costa obtained by NBC News. > The book, set to be released Sept. 21, also recounted a phone conversation Milley had with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi after the Jan. 6 violence at the Capitol, which Pelosi blamed on an "unhinged" Trump. Pelosi said in January that she spoke to Milley about "preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike." > "I can guarantee you, you can take it to the bank, that there'll be, that the nuclear triggers are secure and we're not going to do — we're not going to allow anything crazy, illegal, immoral or unethical to happen," Milley told her, according to a transcript of the call obtained by the authors. > "The president alone can order the use of nuclear weapons. But he doesn't make the decision alone. One person can order it, several people have to launch it," he said later in the conversation. > After the call, Milley summoned senior officers from the National Military Command Center to go over the procedures for launching nuclear weapons, the book said. He told the officers that if they got a call, "you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure," he said — making sure he was in the loop on any planned military actions, the book said. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-trump-misusing-nuclear-weapons-war-china-book-n1279187 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-t... There is no constitution. Take the politics out of it. This is treason.

by cronix 5y ago

White_Wolf 5y ago

I'm not sure if this counts as spying but in UK they are allowed to monitor people to quite a large extent if I got this right. I think refusing to decrypt your device when requested is also punishable. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance-laws-explained-investigatory-powers-bill https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance...

xxpor 5y ago
Yeah the whole "unwritten constitution" thing is very laughable, if we're honest. At least the US Federal gov has to pretend to care about the 4th and 5th amendments.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  If were honest, the us is held together by a few pieces of paper written by a bunch of men 250 years ago that wasn't meant to last 20 years and has since become the sparring ground of lawyers who have twisted it beyond recognition no doubt.
cesaref 5y ago
Indeed, I don't think the UK government has any problem hacking phones if they believe this is required, but it's likely to involve disclosure to the courts, and hence in some way be accountable. It's therefore easier to get a friendly government to do the hacking and to pass on the discovered info, which side-steps any legal accountability.

zionic 5y ago

> Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. Let’s not mince words, this is officials of the United States of America conspiring with foreign hostile [0] powers to undermine the rights and security of the American public. It’s treason, and an incoming president with the stones required could arrest much of the former administration’s “intelligence community” leadership in midnight raids via the insurrection act. [0] Foreign intelligence services are, by design, hostile powers even if they belong to an ally. The UK is an ally, but GCHQ is a hostile agency from the perspective of the United States public which these agencies supposedly serve.

cronix 5y ago
But then we'd have to get into other messy things like the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley bypassing the president's constitutional executive authorities ability to launch a nuclear attack. Of course it's framed as him saving humanity, but at it's core you had a treasonous act. > Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley took steps to prevent then-President Donald Trump from misusing the country's nuclear arsenal during the last month of his presidency, according to a new book by The Washington Post's Bob Woodward and Robert Costa obtained by NBC News. > The book, set to be released Sept. 21, also recounted a phone conversation Milley had with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi after the Jan. 6 violence at the Capitol, which Pelosi blamed on an "unhinged" Trump. Pelosi said in January that she spoke to Milley about "preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike." > "I can guarantee you, you can take it to the bank, that there'll be, that the nuclear triggers are secure and we're not going to do — we're not going to allow anything crazy, illegal, immoral or unethical to happen," Milley told her, according to a transcript of the call obtained by the authors. > "The president alone can order the use of nuclear weapons. But he doesn't make the decision alone. One person can order it, several people have to launch it," he said later in the conversation. > After the call, Milley summoned senior officers from the National Military Command Center to go over the procedures for launching nuclear weapons, the book said. He told the officers that if they got a call, "you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure," he said — making sure he was in the loop on any planned military actions, the book said. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-trump-misusing-nuclear-weapons-war-china-book-n1279187 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-t... There is no constitution. Take the politics out of it. This is treason.