3 ms·

> You think amateurs are going to solve this mystery disease where top experts have failed so far? Maybe. I have learned to be skeptical of local government t

> You think amateurs are going to solve this mystery disease where top experts have failed so far? Maybe. I have learned to be skeptical of local government testing. Sometimes people want to avoid finding an answer because the answer could result in a very expensive and litigious fallout.

antonvs 5y ago
> Do people just trust that local officials have tested for every type of metal and chemical? That's kind of the point of the article. Local government has shut down a broader investigation by expert outsiders. The solution to that situation is extremely unlikely to involve untrained individuals doing rare disease research on their own.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  Local government has shut down a broader investigation by expert outsiders. That isn't even possible in the most totalitarian of societies. Nothing is stopping locals from grabbing water and soil samples and sending it off to labs. This is quite common practice for people will wells and farms. The only difference is bothering to pay for the more expensive tests. They could do GoFundMe fund raisers to get the money. Maybe they find nothing exciting and can at least check that off the list of things to do. If they do find something, perhaps publishing the results in the local media would force the local government to step aside. I will take this a step further and suggest that individual citizens can do tests that governments can not even do. Just as one example if one was so inclined, they could get a doctor to extract liver tissue samples from volunteers and get that analyzed for toxins. Most toxins will result in metabolites in the liver as it will try to neutralize anything toxic you consume. This test is super painful though, its a big needle. Nowhere near as painful as a chest tube. Testing could be done on those recently passed away as part of the autopsy obviously with the families permission. Why the liver? Because toxins in the serum will only remain for a short period of time. The liver will do whatever it can to filter those toxins. There is often evidence that remains in the liver for a very long time. If that is too painful another option would be for the locals to pool money and hire private investigators to research all the people that were ever involved in the testing to determine if there is collusion, conflicts of interest with local companies or maybe even evidence of a cover-up. Maybe they find nothing.
  - SECProto 5y ago
    > That isn't even possible in the most totalitarian of societies. Nothing is stopping locals from grabbing water and soil samples and sending it off to labs. Select quotes from the article: > As with most matters related to health, outbreak response in Canada falls under provincial jurisdiction, but in this case, New Brunswick asked the PHAC for help. Federal colleagues began assembling a nationwide working group, which eventually numbered about two dozen. [...] Then, on June 3, New Brunswick abruptly changed tack. The province told the emerging national working group to stand down. The issue is that health is a provincial matter, and without their cooperation you aren't going to make much progress. All the testing, patient records, autopsy reports, etc etc - would all be protected health information that could only be released with the cooperation of the province.
    - LinuxBender 5y ago
      I am not familiar with NB law but without relying entirely on the article I am going to assume that the surviving executors with power of attorney can order the records. Their attorneys should be able to provide options and hopefully the families don't just rely on the media for advise. Should water and soil samples start coming back positive those with power of attorney should also be able to order exhumation of the bodies assuming this would be relevant and assuming people were not cremated. If the suspect was heavy metals they would still be present. I am not sure if the metals would be detectable in cremated remains. Those impacted that are still alive if any could of course release their own records on their own accord. They could also have various organ tissues tested.
      - mthoms 5y ago
        I love it when some random internet commenter solves a problem that stymied even the premiere scientists in the field (I’m speaking of the federal ones). The kicker? To suggest paying for it all with Go Fund Me donations. Thanks for the laugh.
        LinuxBender 5y ago

antonvs 5y ago

> Do people just trust that local officials have tested for every type of metal and chemical? That's kind of the point of the article. Local government has shut down a broader investigation by expert outsiders. The solution to that situation is extremely unlikely to involve untrained individuals doing rare disease research on their own.

LinuxBender 5y ago
Local government has shut down a broader investigation by expert outsiders. That isn't even possible in the most totalitarian of societies. Nothing is stopping locals from grabbing water and soil samples and sending it off to labs. This is quite common practice for people will wells and farms. The only difference is bothering to pay for the more expensive tests. They could do GoFundMe fund raisers to get the money. Maybe they find nothing exciting and can at least check that off the list of things to do. If they do find something, perhaps publishing the results in the local media would force the local government to step aside. I will take this a step further and suggest that individual citizens can do tests that governments can not even do. Just as one example if one was so inclined, they could get a doctor to extract liver tissue samples from volunteers and get that analyzed for toxins. Most toxins will result in metabolites in the liver as it will try to neutralize anything toxic you consume. This test is super painful though, its a big needle. Nowhere near as painful as a chest tube. Testing could be done on those recently passed away as part of the autopsy obviously with the families permission. Why the liver? Because toxins in the serum will only remain for a short period of time. The liver will do whatever it can to filter those toxins. There is often evidence that remains in the liver for a very long time. If that is too painful another option would be for the locals to pool money and hire private investigators to research all the people that were ever involved in the testing to determine if there is collusion, conflicts of interest with local companies or maybe even evidence of a cover-up. Maybe they find nothing.
- SECProto 5y ago
  > That isn't even possible in the most totalitarian of societies. Nothing is stopping locals from grabbing water and soil samples and sending it off to labs. Select quotes from the article: > As with most matters related to health, outbreak response in Canada falls under provincial jurisdiction, but in this case, New Brunswick asked the PHAC for help. Federal colleagues began assembling a nationwide working group, which eventually numbered about two dozen. [...] Then, on June 3, New Brunswick abruptly changed tack. The province told the emerging national working group to stand down. The issue is that health is a provincial matter, and without their cooperation you aren't going to make much progress. All the testing, patient records, autopsy reports, etc etc - would all be protected health information that could only be released with the cooperation of the province.
  - LinuxBender 5y ago
    I am not familiar with NB law but without relying entirely on the article I am going to assume that the surviving executors with power of attorney can order the records. Their attorneys should be able to provide options and hopefully the families don't just rely on the media for advise. Should water and soil samples start coming back positive those with power of attorney should also be able to order exhumation of the bodies assuming this would be relevant and assuming people were not cremated. If the suspect was heavy metals they would still be present. I am not sure if the metals would be detectable in cremated remains. Those impacted that are still alive if any could of course release their own records on their own accord. They could also have various organ tissues tested.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      I love it when some random internet commenter solves a problem that stymied even the premiere scientists in the field (I’m speaking of the federal ones). The kicker? To suggest paying for it all with Go Fund Me donations. Thanks for the laugh.
      - LinuxBender 5y ago