4 ms·

Secretly colluding in backroom deals to intentionally hamstring privacy protections seems pretty unambiguously... bad? Can you explain how anything Microsoft or

by tga_d 5y ago

Secretly colluding in backroom deals to intentionally hamstring privacy protections seems pretty unambiguously... bad? Can you explain how anything Microsoft or Apple has done has worse implications for society?

Jensson 5y ago
Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Then both Microsoft and Apple often performs huge patent litigations for nonsense patents they spam, Google doesn't. Both Apple and Microsoft uses their industry dominance to push their own products and push others products out of the market, Google does that as well but before it seemed they didn't do it at the same rates, but this lawsuit would put Google at roughly the same level of Microsoft and Apple.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Google has offices in China.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    But its services aren't available in China. Both Apple and Microsoft runs services like search or appstore in China. You can't access Google search or Google appstore in China since Google refuses to hand over the related user data to CCP, both Microsoft and Apple hands over that data to CCP and works to help CCP censor its critics. I agree that the "don't be evil" part of Google has mostly run out, but some of the effects are still there or Google would already be operating in China just like Apple or Microsoft. So until they do operate services in China I'll say that they aren't more evil than Microsoft or Apple who do operate services in China.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      My point is that if they're allowed to operate in China, then they have to bend to the will of, and collaborate with, the CCP if they want to remain there.
      - Jensson 5y ago
        But the argument is evilness. That is a problem, but I don't see how that makes Google more evil than Apple or Microsoft that has already bent to the will of CCP with seemingly no complaints. My argument is basically: Over the past 10 years Google has made great strides towards becoming as evil as a typical big corporation. They are about there today, not sure if they are there or just soon to be, but they are certainly not significantly more evil than the other big corporations.
        heavyset_go 5y ago
        > Apple or Microsoft that has already bent to the will of CCP with seemingly no complaints. Apple certainly gets complaints for their cooperation with the CCP and for their CCP-sponsored censorship in China, HK, and abroad. You can search my HN comments on Algolia and see that I've complained about it plenty of times before.

by tga_d 5y ago

Jensson 5y ago

Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Then both Microsoft and Apple often performs huge patent litigations for nonsense patents they spam, Google doesn't. Both Apple and Microsoft uses their industry dominance to push their own products and push others products out of the market, Google does that as well but before it seemed they didn't do it at the same rates, but this lawsuit would put Google at roughly the same level of Microsoft and Apple.

heavyset_go 5y ago
> Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Google has offices in China.
- Jensson 5y ago
  But its services aren't available in China. Both Apple and Microsoft runs services like search or appstore in China. You can't access Google search or Google appstore in China since Google refuses to hand over the related user data to CCP, both Microsoft and Apple hands over that data to CCP and works to help CCP censor its critics. I agree that the "don't be evil" part of Google has mostly run out, but some of the effects are still there or Google would already be operating in China just like Apple or Microsoft. So until they do operate services in China I'll say that they aren't more evil than Microsoft or Apple who do operate services in China.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    My point is that if they're allowed to operate in China, then they have to bend to the will of, and collaborate with, the CCP if they want to remain there.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      But the argument is evilness. That is a problem, but I don't see how that makes Google more evil than Apple or Microsoft that has already bent to the will of CCP with seemingly no complaints. My argument is basically: Over the past 10 years Google has made great strides towards becoming as evil as a typical big corporation. They are about there today, not sure if they are there or just soon to be, but they are certainly not significantly more evil than the other big corporations.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        > Apple or Microsoft that has already bent to the will of CCP with seemingly no complaints. Apple certainly gets complaints for their cooperation with the CCP and for their CCP-sponsored censorship in China, HK, and abroad. You can search my HN comments on Algolia and see that I've complained about it plenty of times before.