4 ms·

What power do you think American software developers have here that they're not exercising? They should all quit their jobs and move into hardware design so the

What power do you think American software developers have here that they're not exercising? They should all quit their jobs and move into hardware design so they could band together and start a non-profit chip manufacturer to support some new laptop company? And in the meantime, not buy from any other corporation so we can "hit them in their wallets" and coerce them to... something? All so Apple might offer color options on their laptops? I don't think most of them underestimate the relentless greed of corporations. If anything, HN is one of the forums I'm on that's the most anti-corporate while not being explicitly communist/anarchist. You can dismiss the OP as simply complaining, but they're also literally writing an alternate OS for tips. Is that not "using their free bandwidth to do good"? Does it not count because it's not hardware? What about companies like System76 and Framework that are seemingly trying to do exactly what you're claiming people in the US aren't doing? I generally agree with where you're trying to go, and the futility of just complaining, but you're painting with a really broad brush, assuming a lot of bad/ignorant intentions on the part of anyone you disagree with, and only proposing vague "go do something you ignorant privileged Americans" to solve it.

pdimitar 5y ago
Truthfully, so far I am mostly recognizing only System 76 and Frame.Work as making a true difference. As for your questions, they are fair. My main point was that lengthy rants against corporations will achieve nothing and are a distraction from more noble pursuits. I am not saying "quit your job". I am saying however that many of those devs have the free time and energy bandwidth that many others don't, and maybe that should be used to put their wallet/actions where their mouth is. My comment was however mostly a harsh criticism of the endless echo chamber that HN can be. Almost nobody cares what we here think though. I agree that I painted this with a broad brush. It's something that's ticking me off and it gets really sad and frustrating seeing people just yammering their mouth endlessly. :| But sure, that's only my problem, I can easily concede that.
- noirbot 5y ago
  I appreciate the honesty - I guess from my side of this, I have an similar annoyance of people who have lengthy rants against corporations that boil down to "why won't someone else do something about this". Which isn't to say that I think you're not well-intentioned, or not doing anything yourself, but that there's a streak on HN and in general of "why won't the government pass a law to fix X" or "why isn't everyone at (insert unethical company here) doing something about their employer". Ultimately, the problem is a combination of things - some portion of devs just don't agree with you that this is a problem, another portion is radical to the point of only investing in a solution so pure as to be unworkable, and the remaining portion that may agree with you (myself included) isn't enough of the population to matter outside of doing something drastic like quitting their jobs en masse. I recently purchased a Framework laptop. I'd imagine the overlap of people who own S76 or Framework computers and people who are on HN is pretty high. You're already grousing at a group of people who's most likely to be doing everything you think they should be doing, and it hasn't made things better, so out of frustration, we're all ranting to anyone who will listen about how we've done what we can and it's still not better.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    > I have an similar annoyance of people who have lengthy rants against corporations that boil down to "why won't someone else do something about this". That's completely fair and I get where you are coming from. > Ultimately, the problem is a combination of things... Sadly you are correct and that's one of the things I just can't make peace with -- a lot of liberties are not only at stake here, but they are being relentlessly attacked every day, yet people still choose to divide in camps and scream at each other, while the common enemy grows stronger every month... :( > You're already grousing at a group of people who's most likely to be doing everything you think they should be doing... Yes and no. I realize what you say about the hardware that some HN users are using might be true and I'll concede it immediately. There's another group though, same ones I kept talking about -- those that have the free time and energy, maybe even the resources, to try and improve things for everybody else, yet they chose not to do so. As a guy with a streak of super sh_tty luck in the last ~18 months or so (changed several employers; of course not only their fault, mine too) who is just dreaming of having that free time and energy, it's honestly infuriating for me to sit helplessly on the side and fight furiously for stabilizing my life almost every day, while a lot of these (likely) hedonists just parrot ideal theories on a forum... Sorry. As you can see, I am very jaded. Still, I prefer to express myself openly. I know it's offensive to some but I choose to believe that people can and will see through my being jaded and find my true motives and goals. Like you did.

pdimitar 5y ago

Truthfully, so far I am mostly recognizing only System 76 and Frame.Work as making a true difference. As for your questions, they are fair. My main point was that lengthy rants against corporations will achieve nothing and are a distraction from more noble pursuits. I am not saying "quit your job". I am saying however that many of those devs have the free time and energy bandwidth that many others don't, and maybe that should be used to put their wallet/actions where their mouth is. My comment was however mostly a harsh criticism of the endless echo chamber that HN can be. Almost nobody cares what we here think though. I agree that I painted this with a broad brush. It's something that's ticking me off and it gets really sad and frustrating seeing people just yammering their mouth endlessly. :| But sure, that's only my problem, I can easily concede that.

noirbot 5y ago
I appreciate the honesty - I guess from my side of this, I have an similar annoyance of people who have lengthy rants against corporations that boil down to "why won't someone else do something about this". Which isn't to say that I think you're not well-intentioned, or not doing anything yourself, but that there's a streak on HN and in general of "why won't the government pass a law to fix X" or "why isn't everyone at (insert unethical company here) doing something about their employer". Ultimately, the problem is a combination of things - some portion of devs just don't agree with you that this is a problem, another portion is radical to the point of only investing in a solution so pure as to be unworkable, and the remaining portion that may agree with you (myself included) isn't enough of the population to matter outside of doing something drastic like quitting their jobs en masse. I recently purchased a Framework laptop. I'd imagine the overlap of people who own S76 or Framework computers and people who are on HN is pretty high. You're already grousing at a group of people who's most likely to be doing everything you think they should be doing, and it hasn't made things better, so out of frustration, we're all ranting to anyone who will listen about how we've done what we can and it's still not better.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  > I have an similar annoyance of people who have lengthy rants against corporations that boil down to "why won't someone else do something about this". That's completely fair and I get where you are coming from. > Ultimately, the problem is a combination of things... Sadly you are correct and that's one of the things I just can't make peace with -- a lot of liberties are not only at stake here, but they are being relentlessly attacked every day, yet people still choose to divide in camps and scream at each other, while the common enemy grows stronger every month... :( > You're already grousing at a group of people who's most likely to be doing everything you think they should be doing... Yes and no. I realize what you say about the hardware that some HN users are using might be true and I'll concede it immediately. There's another group though, same ones I kept talking about -- those that have the free time and energy, maybe even the resources, to try and improve things for everybody else, yet they chose not to do so. As a guy with a streak of super sh_tty luck in the last ~18 months or so (changed several employers; of course not only their fault, mine too) who is just dreaming of having that free time and energy, it's honestly infuriating for me to sit helplessly on the side and fight furiously for stabilizing my life almost every day, while a lot of these (likely) hedonists just parrot ideal theories on a forum... Sorry. As you can see, I am very jaded. Still, I prefer to express myself openly. I know it's offensive to some but I choose to believe that people can and will see through my being jaded and find my true motives and goals. Like you did.