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Getting knives past airport security seems not particularly difficult from the experience of my circle and other anecdotal sources. I've had friends and family

Getting knives past airport security seems not particularly difficult from the experience of my circle and other anecdotal sources. I've had friends and family accidentally get knives through security on many occasions, and I have also accidentally done it myself. To my knowledge none of them has ever been caught in the converse situation and had to give up a knife. I imagine if one were resourceful and deliberate about it, it would be even more successful.

TheDudeMan 5y ago
I've had to give up a knife on two occasions.
- hlehmann 5y ago
  Back in my scout leader days we would buy Swiss Army knives by the bucketful at TSA auctions and give them to scouts as goodies after jamborees & what not. I swear the TSA must confiscate a thousand a day.
csee 5y ago
This would be great for ML. A knife detection algorithm that alerts the officer when it thinks it spots one when the bags go in the scanner.
- nickpeterson 5y ago
  It wouldn’t be a hacker news post if ML didn’t theoretically solve a problem.
  - csee 5y ago
    I was going to put a disclaimer because of the risk of sounding cliche/ironic/sarcastic, but figured it was a legitimately good idea so I decided to spare people.
- Shared404 5y ago
  Except then you get delayed because the model decides you have a knife and "the computer can't be wrong".
  - csee 5y ago
    They search people randomly anyway, and they search people if the human operator thinks they see something suspicious. If we can keep the number of searches constant and just increase the probability of finding a knife, it's a win for everyone. It's obviously not a win if there's too many false positives, but it's worth a try.
    - gameman144 5y ago
      Is it a win for everyone though? If we have X cases where people brought knives onto planes, and no notable incidents of knife-enabled violence in the past few years, what's the motivation for reducing X by half? I'm sure that some would-be-criminals are dissuaded by the TSA, but that seems to already be working today. It seems like a very reasonable outcome would be no decrease in airline violence/crime, but an increase in taking people's property. All said, if there is still a scourge of knife-wielding criminals on airlines, I'd be happy to be wrong here. Otherwise, though, this seems like it have a very marginally negative impact on the average passenger by taking away their belongings that they accidentally packed.
      - csee 5y ago
        Great point! Although I'd think P(knife hijacking)*Cost(knife hijacking) would be much much larger than the cost of knives being confiscated, even if P(knife hijacking) is very small, just given how cheap knives are and how big that Cost is. I think the bigger point is how much the software would cost and whether the reduction in X justifies that expenditure. Also need to consider cost savings of being able to fire some TSA staff. That reduces the theatre aspect perhaps, but maybe not if it's done the right way (I can think of a few ideas)
        Shared404 5y ago
Ansil849 5y ago
> Getting knives past airport security seems not particularly difficult from the experience of my circle and other anecdotal sources. I've had friends and family accidentally get knives through security on many occasions, and I have also accidentally done it myself. To my knowledge none of them has ever been caught in the converse situation and had to give up a knife. May I ask what your race, and the race of your circle, is?
- jackcviers3 5y ago
  I've accidentally gotten multi-tools through the body scanner before. I just forgot I had it in my pocket.
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  Are you suggesting that metal detectors are racially biased?
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    No. I am suggesting that the discretion of airport security staff about whom to pay closer attention to is. And my suggestion is known as 'profiling'.
    - lowkey_ 5y ago
      Generally, once you get through the metal detector, the knife that was accidentally smuggled through won't be found by a simple body search, if that's your inclination? This happened to my friend (not White if that's so important to you) when an old pocket knife had gotten stuck beneath the bottom of her handbag. They kept running it through the detector, took everything out of it to check, couldn't find the source, and so eventually let her go.
- dafelst 5y ago
  I am white but with black (and now slightly grey) hair and a beard with tan-ish skin. More pertinent to your implication I assume is that my middle name is of Muslim descent and can pass for being of middle-eastern descent, and I seem to get stopped for "random" checks and patdowns more frequently than my white-bread looking friends and colleagues. Observation bias perhaps on my part, but also maybe not.
implements 5y ago
Ceramic knives sold to the general public are supposed to have a metal core to make them detectable. All ceramics are available for people (police, military) who need a hard to detect self-defence knife, eg: https://gearward.com/products/ceramic-escape-knife https://gearward.com/products/ceramic-escape-knife
- salawat 5y ago
  People should be terrified that the "undetectables" are reserved only for the "authorities".
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Ceramic knives seem quite fragile in the kitchen, I am skeptical they have a lot of potential as weapons, as even small amounts of twisting/shearing force will crack or snap them.
rscho 5y ago
I've had TSA confiscate my mini swiss knife (1 inch blade)... #-/

TheDudeMan 5y ago

I've had to give up a knife on two occasions.

hlehmann 5y ago
Back in my scout leader days we would buy Swiss Army knives by the bucketful at TSA auctions and give them to scouts as goodies after jamborees & what not. I swear the TSA must confiscate a thousand a day.

csee 5y ago

This would be great for ML. A knife detection algorithm that alerts the officer when it thinks it spots one when the bags go in the scanner.

nickpeterson 5y ago
It wouldn’t be a hacker news post if ML didn’t theoretically solve a problem.
- csee 5y ago
  I was going to put a disclaimer because of the risk of sounding cliche/ironic/sarcastic, but figured it was a legitimately good idea so I decided to spare people.
Shared404 5y ago
Except then you get delayed because the model decides you have a knife and "the computer can't be wrong".
- csee 5y ago
  They search people randomly anyway, and they search people if the human operator thinks they see something suspicious. If we can keep the number of searches constant and just increase the probability of finding a knife, it's a win for everyone. It's obviously not a win if there's too many false positives, but it's worth a try.
  - gameman144 5y ago
    Is it a win for everyone though? If we have X cases where people brought knives onto planes, and no notable incidents of knife-enabled violence in the past few years, what's the motivation for reducing X by half? I'm sure that some would-be-criminals are dissuaded by the TSA, but that seems to already be working today. It seems like a very reasonable outcome would be no decrease in airline violence/crime, but an increase in taking people's property. All said, if there is still a scourge of knife-wielding criminals on airlines, I'd be happy to be wrong here. Otherwise, though, this seems like it have a very marginally negative impact on the average passenger by taking away their belongings that they accidentally packed.
    - csee 5y ago
      Great point! Although I'd think P(knife hijacking)*Cost(knife hijacking) would be much much larger than the cost of knives being confiscated, even if P(knife hijacking) is very small, just given how cheap knives are and how big that Cost is. I think the bigger point is how much the software would cost and whether the reduction in X justifies that expenditure. Also need to consider cost savings of being able to fire some TSA staff. That reduces the theatre aspect perhaps, but maybe not if it's done the right way (I can think of a few ideas)
      - Shared404 5y ago

Ansil849 5y ago

> Getting knives past airport security seems not particularly difficult from the experience of my circle and other anecdotal sources. I've had friends and family accidentally get knives through security on many occasions, and I have also accidentally done it myself. To my knowledge none of them has ever been caught in the converse situation and had to give up a knife. May I ask what your race, and the race of your circle, is?

jackcviers3 5y ago
I've accidentally gotten multi-tools through the body scanner before. I just forgot I had it in my pocket.
lowkey_ 5y ago
Are you suggesting that metal detectors are racially biased?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  No. I am suggesting that the discretion of airport security staff about whom to pay closer attention to is. And my suggestion is known as 'profiling'.
  - lowkey_ 5y ago
    Generally, once you get through the metal detector, the knife that was accidentally smuggled through won't be found by a simple body search, if that's your inclination? This happened to my friend (not White if that's so important to you) when an old pocket knife had gotten stuck beneath the bottom of her handbag. They kept running it through the detector, took everything out of it to check, couldn't find the source, and so eventually let her go.
dafelst 5y ago
I am white but with black (and now slightly grey) hair and a beard with tan-ish skin. More pertinent to your implication I assume is that my middle name is of Muslim descent and can pass for being of middle-eastern descent, and I seem to get stopped for "random" checks and patdowns more frequently than my white-bread looking friends and colleagues. Observation bias perhaps on my part, but also maybe not.

implements 5y ago

Ceramic knives sold to the general public are supposed to have a metal core to make them detectable. All ceramics are available for people (police, military) who need a hard to detect self-defence knife, eg: https://gearward.com/products/ceramic-escape-knife https://gearward.com/products/ceramic-escape-knife

salawat 5y ago
People should be terrified that the "undetectables" are reserved only for the "authorities".
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Ceramic knives seem quite fragile in the kitchen, I am skeptical they have a lot of potential as weapons, as even small amounts of twisting/shearing force will crack or snap them.

rscho 5y ago

I've had TSA confiscate my mini swiss knife (1 inch blade)... #-/