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> I hope the situation will become better for the pedestrians. It will not. In the NYC metro area (including Northern NJ), pedestrians are constantly in danger

by nanis 5y ago

> I hope the situation will become better for the pedestrians. It will not. In the NYC metro area (including Northern NJ), pedestrians are constantly in danger of being hit by both cyclists and people on powered bicycles (which are motorcycles for all practical purposes). I have seen these people hit people and on one occasion one of them kicked a stroller. If anyone says anything, they face further harassment: In one instance, one rider lifted her bicycle and hit me and left. Delivery drivers tend to be better than others on the sidewalk, but then you watch them go the wrong way at 30 MPH with the giant battery pack and you feel for the driver who might have a close encounter or worse. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. PS: I notice that this thread seems to be full of people who claim standing on the sidewalk watching cars whizz by is scary. It isn't. Cars don't routinely jump the curb, cars don't routinely drive on sidewalks, most drivers are quick to yield to pedestrians. On the other hand, even if you are crossing at the walk sign, there will be at least four bike riders trying to run the red light through a hundred pedestrians at 42nd & 8th.

namdnay 5y ago
The problem isn’t the cyclists or the pedestrians, it’s that they are both combined to less than 2m of space on the side of the road, the rest being reserved for the almighty automobile.
addicted 5y ago
Cars routinely kill people unlike bicycles. The only reason you’re more afraid of bikes than cars is because you’re socialized to accept cars.
- bane 5y ago
  I've personally been hit by more bikes than cars, even suffering long-term injury in once case.
  - addicted 5y ago
    Well, that’s not surprising. Bike lanes usually adjoin sidewalks, as opposed to car lanes, which usually have some buffer. But also because if you were hit by a car the likelihood of you being around to write a comment about it would be extremely low.
wayoutthere 5y ago
When cities don’t prioritize dedicated bike infrastructure, the sidewalk is the de-facto bike lane. Sure, cyclists are supposed to ride in traffic but that’s also super dangerous in a city like NYC. The failure here is on the part of city planners, not the cyclists. And enforcing traffic laws against an even moderately skilled cyclist is difficult: I remember easily outrunning the bike cops when I was younger because I was simply in much better shape than them and could handle a bike a lot better in an urban environment.
- nanis 5y ago
  > The failure here is on the part of city planners Yeah, no, when there is a perfectly fine one way road with enough space plus a speed limit of 25 mph, having to constantly be aware of people on bicycles come at you from behind or around corners at full speed is the fault of the person who chooses to do that. The fact that this happens every day, multiple times is because 1) the targets (e.g., moms with a stroller) are powerless in a one-on-one confrontation with these bullies; 2) the police will never enforce existing laws. In Denmark and the Netherlands, at least when I got to bike in those places, the police would routinely ticket bicyclists. I know, I got tickets and paid fines.
  - addicted 5y ago
    You’re seriously mistaken if you think a one way road with a 25mph speed limit is “perfectly fine”. In countries with decent infrastructure you don’t need to look out for bicyclists “coming from behind”. I also find it interesting that the guy protected by a ton of steel is afraid of 200 pounds of mostly flesh coming from behind on a one way road and is unable to imagine how that 180 pounds of flesh on 20 pounds of metal might feel about the ton of steel coming from behind them on that “perfectly fine” 25 mph one way road.
    - nanis 5y ago
      > the guy protected by a ton of steel is afraid This is either an example of a perfect propagandist misdirection or the best illustration of the blind spot people on bicycles and powered-bicycles have when it comes to pedestrians. I was referring to pedestrians having to constantly have 360 degrees situational awareness because of faster traveling bicycles presenting a danger to them, to their babies or toddlers etc. The person who's riding full speed on sidewalks is already signaling the fact that they are a bully. All a parent pushing a stroller or walking their toddler can do is to try to avoid being slammed into at full speed. As for the person driving a car, the fact is bicyclists rarely consider the momentum of those vehicles when they decide to run a red light and ram through a bunch of pedestrians crossing the street and zip through cross-traffic in through daredevil fashion. 99/100 that works out not because the bicyclist is not a complete nitwit but because everyone else is constantly looking out for them.
roel_v 5y ago
"Sidewalks are for pedestrians." Of course they are. If you cycle on them in the Netherlands, you'll get yelled at very fast. I don't think anyone anywhere claims that people should cycle on sidewalks. Still, in many bicycle-hostile areas, cyclists choose to do that over, you know, dying - but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's dangerous to cycle on sidewalks.

by nanis 5y ago

namdnay 5y ago

The problem isn’t the cyclists or the pedestrians, it’s that they are both combined to less than 2m of space on the side of the road, the rest being reserved for the almighty automobile.

addicted 5y ago

Cars routinely kill people unlike bicycles. The only reason you’re more afraid of bikes than cars is because you’re socialized to accept cars.

bane 5y ago
I've personally been hit by more bikes than cars, even suffering long-term injury in once case.
- addicted 5y ago
  Well, that’s not surprising. Bike lanes usually adjoin sidewalks, as opposed to car lanes, which usually have some buffer. But also because if you were hit by a car the likelihood of you being around to write a comment about it would be extremely low.

wayoutthere 5y ago

When cities don’t prioritize dedicated bike infrastructure, the sidewalk is the de-facto bike lane. Sure, cyclists are supposed to ride in traffic but that’s also super dangerous in a city like NYC. The failure here is on the part of city planners, not the cyclists. And enforcing traffic laws against an even moderately skilled cyclist is difficult: I remember easily outrunning the bike cops when I was younger because I was simply in much better shape than them and could handle a bike a lot better in an urban environment.

nanis 5y ago
> The failure here is on the part of city planners Yeah, no, when there is a perfectly fine one way road with enough space plus a speed limit of 25 mph, having to constantly be aware of people on bicycles come at you from behind or around corners at full speed is the fault of the person who chooses to do that. The fact that this happens every day, multiple times is because 1) the targets (e.g., moms with a stroller) are powerless in a one-on-one confrontation with these bullies; 2) the police will never enforce existing laws. In Denmark and the Netherlands, at least when I got to bike in those places, the police would routinely ticket bicyclists. I know, I got tickets and paid fines.
- addicted 5y ago
  You’re seriously mistaken if you think a one way road with a 25mph speed limit is “perfectly fine”. In countries with decent infrastructure you don’t need to look out for bicyclists “coming from behind”. I also find it interesting that the guy protected by a ton of steel is afraid of 200 pounds of mostly flesh coming from behind on a one way road and is unable to imagine how that 180 pounds of flesh on 20 pounds of metal might feel about the ton of steel coming from behind them on that “perfectly fine” 25 mph one way road.
  - nanis 5y ago
    > the guy protected by a ton of steel is afraid This is either an example of a perfect propagandist misdirection or the best illustration of the blind spot people on bicycles and powered-bicycles have when it comes to pedestrians. I was referring to pedestrians having to constantly have 360 degrees situational awareness because of faster traveling bicycles presenting a danger to them, to their babies or toddlers etc. The person who's riding full speed on sidewalks is already signaling the fact that they are a bully. All a parent pushing a stroller or walking their toddler can do is to try to avoid being slammed into at full speed. As for the person driving a car, the fact is bicyclists rarely consider the momentum of those vehicles when they decide to run a red light and ram through a bunch of pedestrians crossing the street and zip through cross-traffic in through daredevil fashion. 99/100 that works out not because the bicyclist is not a complete nitwit but because everyone else is constantly looking out for them.

roel_v 5y ago

"Sidewalks are for pedestrians." Of course they are. If you cycle on them in the Netherlands, you'll get yelled at very fast. I don't think anyone anywhere claims that people should cycle on sidewalks. Still, in many bicycle-hostile areas, cyclists choose to do that over, you know, dying - but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's dangerous to cycle on sidewalks.