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I never understood how some people seem to not know that Lenovo and IBM are not the same company. When Lenovo, a completely different company, bought the right

I never understood how some people seem to not know that Lenovo and IBM are not the same company. When Lenovo, a completely different company, bought the rights to manufacture IBM products in 2005, the Think* brand was no longer IBM. The author states, eventually, his point being that Lenovo lost it’s mojo, but it never had any. The Thinkpads people remember with mojo were the IBM ones, and some Lenovo branded ones after the handoff, but that’s really just residual “mojo” from the old teams and processes. Lenovo was never good, and really isn’t now, and has a long record of bad behavior.

kmlx 5y ago
i think the fact that people associate Lenovo “thinkpads” with quality products says a lot about how much “mojo” the ibm “thinkpad” brand had. and in hindsight that ibm > lenovo deal was a bad deal for ibm.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Also to a point Lenovo had one of the original ThinkPad labs. Don't know how much is still there tough but that's why Lenovo is not just Lenovo to me.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Not necessarily. Just because people liked them doesn’t mean they were profitable.
- toast0 5y ago
  > in hindsight that ibm > lenovo deal was a bad deal for ibm. IBM got out of an industry they didn't want to be in, but they still have a lot of positive brand feelings, and a large stake in Lenovo (not sure if they still hold that). Where's the bad for IBM? They sold off their PC server line to Lenovo about a decade later, so clearly the first deal wasn't too bad. IBM seems to want to focus on Enterprise, so getting rid of things that individuals use, while still having relationships to sell them (because individuals exist in the enterprise), seems to work for them. After IBM bought SoftLayer, Lenovo servers started showing up instead of SuperMicro.
- Izkata 5y ago
  I think it's an indicator of how bad other brands are. I bought my first Thinkpad in 2019 and (with the exception that its battery is internal) like it way more than my previous HP (1), Dell (1 personal/3 work), and Asus (2) laptops.
syshum 5y ago
I dont know I used both IBM Thinkpads, and Lenovo ThinkPad's including current gen. I do not find Lenovo ThinkPads to be any worse than the business offers from Dell, or HP. In some ways they are better, in some ways there are worse I would avoid the non-Think* lines, as just like with the Consumer lines of Dell they suck... They did introduce a Think branded L line recently, these I are approaching that consumer level branded as business line, but the T and P series are still very good IMO
- zibzab 5y ago
  Agreed. Lenovo has some pretty crappy stuff right now, but they still make the best laptops in the market. And let's not forget the excellent Linux support on the thinkpad line (partially thanks to Ubuntu?).
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    > And let's not forget the excellent Linux support on the thinkpad line (partially thanks to Ubuntu?). From what I heard, mostly thanks to thankless employees at Red Hat who get these machines for work and batter them into submission (by reverse-engineering the hardware and writing device drivers). Lenovo only deserves the middle finger here. Edit: or maybe it does not. Read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978330
    - jwildeboer 5y ago
      Well, actually ;) That relationship has become a lot better over the years. We get early access to new hardware, Lenovo did a lot to get fwupd integrated, etc. No OEM preload necessary on the business line machines. RHEL/Fedora installs just fine OOTB. Some problems remain, especially with Thunderbolt (docking stations) but that’s not just Lenovos fault, IMHO. Disclaimer: Red Hatter since 2005
    - syshum 5y ago
      I am torn... Do I thank RedHat for Linux support on laptops, or do i hate RedHat for killing CentOS....
philliphaydon 5y ago
At this point I wouldn’t buy any non-Lenovo laptop. I don’t know any other brand (excluding framework) that has a web page where I can enter the model number of my laptop and buy any part and order it and repair the laptop myself.
- gbrown 5y ago
  I’ve repaired numerous non-lenovo laptops, it just required googling rather than an official web-page.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    Sure, but for example, I was living in Singapore, prior to moving to Taiwan I sold my desktops and replaced them with laptops. My wife needs a Traditional Chinese, so I went on Lenovo website, entered the product number in found this page: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/legion-series/legion-5-pro-16ach6h/82jq/parts/display/compatible https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netb... Got the part numbers: UpperCaseASM_TCL82JQSGw/RGBWRF Part Number: 5CB1C14972 Then went to the Lenovo store and ordered the part, then replaced it. It's not about googling, its about the manufacturer having this itself. I don't know if Dell or HP do anything similar.
    - tata71 5y ago
      That's pretty cool — but not worth working with a vendor that's known to ship rootkits/malware.
- secondaryacct 5y ago
  Yeah I dont get the first commenter, Lenovo is great !
- cowpig 5y ago
  You might be interested this this then: https://frame.work https://frame.work
tomcooks 5y ago
Some of the beloved classics x230,x220, etc are full Lenovo, and people specifically look for those
- EamonnMR 5y ago
  The nice thing about the x220 at least when I got mine was that they where retired fleet laptops so you could get them dirt cheap and throw a few new components in them. I dread the day that the CPU and graphics are finally truly obsolete...
iforgotpassword 5y ago
This is oversimplified if not wrong. You make it sound something like Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand long after IBM stopped making them. They bought all the know how, engineers, a full rnd lab iirc. The first couple generations of Lenovo ThinkPads were very similar if not indistinguishable from the IBM ones, and I agree with most people here that even current models are still among the best laptops you can get.

kmlx 5y ago

i think the fact that people associate Lenovo “thinkpads” with quality products says a lot about how much “mojo” the ibm “thinkpad” brand had. and in hindsight that ibm > lenovo deal was a bad deal for ibm.

agumonkey 5y ago
Also to a point Lenovo had one of the original ThinkPad labs. Don't know how much is still there tough but that's why Lenovo is not just Lenovo to me.
bradleyjg 5y ago
Not necessarily. Just because people liked them doesn’t mean they were profitable.
toast0 5y ago
> in hindsight that ibm > lenovo deal was a bad deal for ibm. IBM got out of an industry they didn't want to be in, but they still have a lot of positive brand feelings, and a large stake in Lenovo (not sure if they still hold that). Where's the bad for IBM? They sold off their PC server line to Lenovo about a decade later, so clearly the first deal wasn't too bad. IBM seems to want to focus on Enterprise, so getting rid of things that individuals use, while still having relationships to sell them (because individuals exist in the enterprise), seems to work for them. After IBM bought SoftLayer, Lenovo servers started showing up instead of SuperMicro.
Izkata 5y ago
I think it's an indicator of how bad other brands are. I bought my first Thinkpad in 2019 and (with the exception that its battery is internal) like it way more than my previous HP (1), Dell (1 personal/3 work), and Asus (2) laptops.

syshum 5y ago

I dont know I used both IBM Thinkpads, and Lenovo ThinkPad's including current gen. I do not find Lenovo ThinkPads to be any worse than the business offers from Dell, or HP. In some ways they are better, in some ways there are worse I would avoid the non-Think* lines, as just like with the Consumer lines of Dell they suck... They did introduce a Think branded L line recently, these I are approaching that consumer level branded as business line, but the T and P series are still very good IMO

zibzab 5y ago
Agreed. Lenovo has some pretty crappy stuff right now, but they still make the best laptops in the market. And let's not forget the excellent Linux support on the thinkpad line (partially thanks to Ubuntu?).
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  > And let's not forget the excellent Linux support on the thinkpad line (partially thanks to Ubuntu?). From what I heard, mostly thanks to thankless employees at Red Hat who get these machines for work and batter them into submission (by reverse-engineering the hardware and writing device drivers). Lenovo only deserves the middle finger here. Edit: or maybe it does not. Read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978330
  - jwildeboer 5y ago
    Well, actually ;) That relationship has become a lot better over the years. We get early access to new hardware, Lenovo did a lot to get fwupd integrated, etc. No OEM preload necessary on the business line machines. RHEL/Fedora installs just fine OOTB. Some problems remain, especially with Thunderbolt (docking stations) but that’s not just Lenovos fault, IMHO. Disclaimer: Red Hatter since 2005
  - syshum 5y ago
    I am torn... Do I thank RedHat for Linux support on laptops, or do i hate RedHat for killing CentOS....

philliphaydon 5y ago

At this point I wouldn’t buy any non-Lenovo laptop. I don’t know any other brand (excluding framework) that has a web page where I can enter the model number of my laptop and buy any part and order it and repair the laptop myself.

gbrown 5y ago
I’ve repaired numerous non-lenovo laptops, it just required googling rather than an official web-page.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Sure, but for example, I was living in Singapore, prior to moving to Taiwan I sold my desktops and replaced them with laptops. My wife needs a Traditional Chinese, so I went on Lenovo website, entered the product number in found this page: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/legion-series/legion-5-pro-16ach6h/82jq/parts/display/compatible https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netb... Got the part numbers: UpperCaseASM_TCL82JQSGw/RGBWRF Part Number: 5CB1C14972 Then went to the Lenovo store and ordered the part, then replaced it. It's not about googling, its about the manufacturer having this itself. I don't know if Dell or HP do anything similar.
  - tata71 5y ago
    That's pretty cool — but not worth working with a vendor that's known to ship rootkits/malware.
secondaryacct 5y ago
Yeah I dont get the first commenter, Lenovo is great !
cowpig 5y ago
You might be interested this this then: https://frame.work https://frame.work

tomcooks 5y ago

Some of the beloved classics x230,x220, etc are full Lenovo, and people specifically look for those

EamonnMR 5y ago
The nice thing about the x220 at least when I got mine was that they where retired fleet laptops so you could get them dirt cheap and throw a few new components in them. I dread the day that the CPU and graphics are finally truly obsolete...

iforgotpassword 5y ago

This is oversimplified if not wrong. You make it sound something like Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand long after IBM stopped making them. They bought all the know how, engineers, a full rnd lab iirc. The first couple generations of Lenovo ThinkPads were very similar if not indistinguishable from the IBM ones, and I agree with most people here that even current models are still among the best laptops you can get.